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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I have Peaktransed

103 replies

Chickenagain · 04/04/2018 11:28

God knows I am accepting, tolerant and open-minded, but if this is our future www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/outrage-transgender-prisoner-living-woman-12022675 then I am truly afraid.

I have known various people who now identify as women and vice versa and the vast, vast majority have no intention of behaving in any way to draw unwanted attention to themselves or to upset the status quo.

IMVHO there seems to be two evolving types - the totally self obsessed delusional - realised that being LBG was now no more unusual than having blonde hair - being gay no longer warranted being a protected characteristic in the UK - and wanted more. Wanted to be special, wanted to be the Only Trans in the Village - the attention screaming Loooook at MEEEEEEEEEE..

And there are others abusing the 'white female privilege (confused)' who will no doubt resort to their birth gender when no longer a trans athlete/offender/rapist/activist, the upkeep of being an invisible female over the age of 60 becomes too onerous and our gender has served its purpose.

I just wish women would wake up (angry).

OP posts:
SasBel · 04/04/2018 13:19

Step where are those pics? I can only find pictures of a masculine looking adult.

Chickenagain · 04/04/2018 13:20

There were two other threads on the Google story - both deleted as speculative as a reliable source has not confirmed yet - come on Daily Fail, get your finger out 🙁

@Jayceedove I feel for you and hope these idiots don't make your life harder for you. I am so relieved that you didn't think I was being 'transphobic' because I genuinely believe I am not. Your post comes across as you being another regular human being, just getting on with their life - and long may you be able to do so ThanksThanksThanks

OP posts:
Step · 04/04/2018 13:35

She was a body builder therefore the odd stature.

Pictures were here on a deleted thread of her as a young girl.

He voice is remarkably feminine.

If these allegations which I strongly suspect are wrong are subsequently found out t o be so it makes holes in valid arguments that have been put forward on the feminism boards and blows credibility.

I

Ereshkigal · 04/04/2018 13:38

The stuff I've read hasn't come from feminists. It's not a feminist smear plot. But I agree it's highly speculative and the evidence I've seen is not conclusive at the moment.

picklemepopcorn · 04/04/2018 13:40

Jaycee dove, have you become more aware of the difficulties and more critical since joining the conversation on MN? I've seen you on other threads, and vaguely remember your earlier comments suggested you thought we were all transphobes. Have I misremembered, or are you softening towards us!?!

AncientLights · 04/04/2018 14:22

But back to the op, what pleasure can there really be for this convict who cheated his way to victory?

SlowlyShrinking · 04/04/2018 14:29

The pleasure of knowing that he’s got one over on all the women prisoners and also the prison officers? The continued pleasure that he may or may not get from being in the shower with his penis out, with females who can’t get away from him? Cheating may be exactly what turns him on for all we know.

TerfsUp · 04/04/2018 14:29

what pleasure can there really be for this convict who cheated his way to victory?

Emotionally, smugness; in terms of prison currency, the "goodie bag" they received as a prize contains items that are quite valued in prison.

It is disgraceful that they are in a women's prison.

NoqontroI · 04/04/2018 14:32

That is a fucking joke Angry

MrsJoshDun · 04/04/2018 14:39

It’s pretty bad that a person with a penis is inflicted on female inmates in the communal showers. How come they don’t get a say if they want to have to see a strangers male penis on a daily basis? Oh that’s right, they’re women, and cons at that.....they have no rights, no say.

Jayceedove · 04/04/2018 15:02

picklepopcorn. - No I never thought you were all transphobes. I do appreciate why words matter to you and appreciate the sincerity of expresion. It was hard being called man repeatedly for weeks for the first time anywhere in 40 years. But I tried not to complain because I understood why it mattered.

I have had a lot of nice PMs off thread, too, so I knew there were a lot of decent concerned people here. And whilst some of the harder posts and name calling hurt I tried never to react to them as I don't think that ever helps understanding.

I took time off to let it calm down and only returned when I felt it important. Such as today in the thread on trans men started by Stephen Whittle who was getting similar suspicious looks from posters when he is exactly the kind of person you should be engaging with, regardless of whether you agree entirely or not.

Being a woman who transitioned to a man many years ago and who has become successful as a man and was one of those who helped create the GRA and is a doctor of equalities law at a university he is eminently suited to answer so many of your questions. And I did not want him driven away by the disbelief and suspicion.

I first came on here to discover the cause of the concerns and hardening stance I was seeing from women around me, because I had really only seen one side of it coming from other trans people (some of whom will be activists I guess). Who all seemed to think women were not concerned whereas I could see in daily life that they were and needed to understand why.

picklemepopcorn · 04/04/2018 15:10

Thank you Jaycee! I can understand how unpleasant it must feel. I hate that both sides of this debate use violent aggressive and disrespectful language about the other. It completely undermines the argument, and makes it hard to discuss in a nuanced way as we're all riled up by the various insults.

Jayceedove · 04/04/2018 15:12

I post on just one trans forum (and only over the past couple of years) And I have seen there a generation gap in that some of the older transsexuals felt much as I do and the more recently transitioned and predominantly younger ones who were active were much less worried over self ID and removal of any barriers as us.

So I could see that we oldies were getting more out of step there. But I was looking for reasons and solutions not fights.

On Digital Spy I have also debated with feminists on these matters for the past 2 - 3 years. I don't think I have ever fallen out with them and on there you will see my views are not sudden inventions and I have always argued much as I do about self ID.

Though, of course, I have learnt new things on here, too, so it is possible my feelings have changed a little with that. I would hope I have as it was the point of coming here.

Something is shifting in society. And it is important to engage and discuss over what will be major differences rather than insist or demand.

We may not stop social change from happening - and, indeed, in some ways we probably should not try, as change in moderation often brings benefits.

But we can certainly try to make sure that those changes are not one sided or divisive and ask too much of the majority without little return from the minority but just get rubber stamped out of political fear of not winning the next election via young voters, which I think is more at play here than a sensible overhaul of the policy on these matters.

Jayceedove · 04/04/2018 15:29

picklemepopcorn, I agree entirely.

To me if you 100% believe you should be a sex other than you biologically know that you are then the first thing you should be doing is go see a doctor and find out if there is an actual reason you innately seem to believe this.

It pretty obviously appears to be a disorder of something - body, mind, genetics, who knows - as it is not the normality you see around you so pretty early in life you figure out you are out of step and must want to find out why .

So go find answers and the best way experts believe that you should fix it. Not to do that just does not make sense to me, but it is now what seems to be the plan for all.

When Theresa May stated that she accepted being trans was not a medical matter I thought something is very wrong here - either my whole life so far is going gaga - or her understanding of this is misguided. So it was time to find out which.

The more I look the more it seems obvious that there are two different things involved here.

One is medical - as in physical or psychological but clearly recognised by the person as being an anomaly - and the other some kind of desire to self express with more freedom in your personality.

Possibly they could be different expressions of the same thing filtered through very different social eras. Because today's social media driven, free thinking and quite litigious generation is very different from the 50s and 60s where I grew up trans and you were who you were and you were taught to do what adults said and trust doctors to resolve your problems rather than lawyers.

Or they could actually have entirely different causes because I do see major differences between transsexuals who largely accept biology and want to transition physically and once done so feel no longer trans and just want to get on with a life interrupted. Hence no real push for rights until the turn of the Millennium. Britain being not in front of the queue here by any means.

And on the other side today's activists who want to redefine every word in the dictionary to suit and invent needless terms like CIS (which I only accept in the sense that my mum was a CIS woman as she once worked for the Coop Insurance). And change the world to suit them not adapt themselves to fit the world.

Not up to me to decide what those differences mean but they do stand out to me. And unfortunately there are few of us and an awful lot of the latter, hence what you see out there in the media. Especially as we are conditioned to keep our heads down.

A transsexual will fully understand we have NOT changed sex as that is biologically impossible. We have been socially accommodated in our identity in a mutual pact where we change physically as much as we are able, blend in and get on with life and demand nothing.

For 31 years of 45 post transition I had no legal recognition and never expected any. I saw the GRA as a formalisation of that mutual understanding, no more. Not a signal to change the status of women or a demand for words to be altered or a new reality to be imposed.

The new breed of trans identifiers seem to want all those things for nothing in return and seem argumentative and insistent and not willing to budge much for what seem very reasonable concerns expressed by women. Many of which I share.

There seems a huge lack of give and take and a lot of talk of changing how everyone thinks. I do not find that helpful or likely to achieve anything but mistrust.

Is this just a different generation, different way of thinking?

Or is it a hard core of those with a rare problem of still unidentified origin willing to do anything to fit in and get on with a quiet life versus a social revolution someone, somewhere is pushing to ride the coattails of a little confusion between the application of the GRA and Equality Act?

Just asking that question, not answering it.

Either way moving from 6000 with a GRC most of whom have fully transitioned physically and seem not that eager to get involved in any fight is a giant leap to 600,000 asking for one without any medical or psychiatric assessment or period in which to prove sincerity and permanence of transition and that this transition actually has worked and not left them much as they were before.

All of which seem pretty fair safeguards if you expect to be given a very different status in the world.

You do not have to be a feminist to worry about the potential repercussions on many aspects of our society.

Simply waving it through is not good sense for anyone.

Caldonia · 04/04/2018 16:46

I have enjoyed reading your thoughtful posts Jayceedove.

Jayceedove · 04/04/2018 17:00

Thank you so much, Caldonia. I know how hard this is to get across and that I tend to write far too much as it just pours out.

Caldonia · 04/04/2018 17:36

The calmness and clarity of your analysis comes through. It is difficult stuff to think about and to articulate (poor wording from me!).

LostArt · 04/04/2018 22:04

"This kind of thing increasingly shows why self ID would create problems if it happens without the existing gatekeeping."

It also shows how self id is happening already. Is any meaningful gatekeeping happening at the moment? If it is why is this person in the female prison?

Jayceedove · 04/04/2018 22:44

Lostart, it does seem like a lot of people are pro actively introducing it out of fear of being attacked for not doing.

That train announcements thing last year (I posted quite a bit on that on Digital Spy) was when I first suspected this was happening.

A trans woman was accidentally misgendered on a platform. She complained. Staff were advised not to presume gender when talking to anyone.

That should have been it. A proportionate response. End of story.

Instead they over reacted and changed the recorded announcement on trains to remove reference to morning ladies and gentlemen in case it offended anyone who did not identify as either.

Ludicrous move out of fear that is getting built up by constant tabloid stories hyping any case where someone complains.

Answer - stop publishing the story of an obviously ridiculous request and not create a sense of fear out there that they need to react before it happens to avoid bad publicity.

The government could help by issuing a comment that they are only consulting on any changes to the GRA and have made no decision as yet and self ID is not currently law and is not yet even being proposed to be. We will tell you if and when it is.

That way some places that are unfamiliar with the actual situation based on just reading the constant medias stories - that might lead them to think that this is a foregone conclusion - might pause and wait to see what actually happens first.

The government could intervene and remind

AncientLights · 04/04/2018 23:05

In some situátions organisations that imagine they are 'getting ahead of the law' might surely be breaking the existing law?

Angryresister · 04/04/2018 23:14

Some things have been deleted or taken down, a few left up . We shall see.

Hulo · 04/04/2018 23:20

@Jayceedove and everyone, you may be interested in this video from a young trans woman questioning the need for the GRA. I think she has her head screwed on right.

HawkeyeInConfusion · 04/04/2018 23:26

Your posts make interesting reading Jaycee. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences.

Ereshkigal · 04/04/2018 23:42

Yes can second hulo's video. Very good.

AngryAttackKittens · 05/04/2018 02:08

I just wish women would wake up (angry).

You rang? But seriously, the more of this nonsense is shoved in women's faces the more of us won't be having it. The tide seems to be turning, and there are far more people pushing back than a year ago. It'll probably get worse before it gets better in that people who've gotten used to their Only Trans In The Village status will cling onto it for all their worth and their desperate flailing will hit lots of other people, but ultimately? The idea that a man is a woman just because he says so is fucking ridiculous, and eventually they won't be able to stop people saying so.

We're getting there.