"The Trans Revolution" to be broadcast on Radio 4 at 8pm tonight

[kesstrel]

How is it that trans people have come out of the shadows and become so visible, in films and music, in ads, on TV, on the radio, when for decades their lives were hidden? What has enabled that change? Is it hard-won battles for equality, changes in gender roles, the birth of the internet, consumer culture? Maria Margaronis explores what lies behind the Trans Revolution and discovers that even asking the question is fraught with difficulties.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09xjx34

Nature doesn't do binary.

“Nature doesn’t do binary”

Bloke drones on

when does this finish
Centuries from now, I fear

Ha! Stuck out to you too then ;)

Right my previous posts are quotes or near quotes and do not reflect my views. Just posting for the pp who could not listen. It was good that between us we got a lot of it down.

Did they frame it as a dispute between Feminists and pornsick weasels?

Beige fluff with nothing from feminists and no mention of what the proposed law changes will bring.

Just everyone being ‘scared of trannies’ as usual.

There was no investigation of any of the disputed areas. Transgender people are on a journey of freeing themselves from the gender binary so apart from some worries and niggles, it's all good.

So if nature doesn’t do binary (that must be news to farmers!) why the obsession with binary gender?

Well, on the whole it was not too bad. There were a range of contributers and questions were asked. It did improve after the beginning.

Your posts were very clearly reporting Blackeyed - thank you. My post is fairly obviously not!

I was only listening with half an ear (supervising equations) but I thought it tried to be quite balanced for the BBC. There was at least an effort not to frame all women who have concerns as total witches. But the wooo nature of gender got the summing up. And as they didn't distinguish between sex and gender as far as I heard, it was all down to woo and no woo

Every time Jane Fae is on the air someone should ask about his belief that 16 year olds should be able to do hardcore porn.

The concern over the over sexualisation of girls. The marginalisation of lesbians in LGBT groups, the raising of questions of some people getting caught up in something... The fact that we do not yet know how it is going to turn out but this generation may end up feeling the consequences, ie will be stranded on the beach by the tides of history.

I'm quoting a paper below that talks about what has gone wrong with gender and it's sublimation into identity politics.

213ou636sh0ptphd141fqei1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/gender/wp-content/uploads/publications/55cc9d92cdc0e_Gender%20mainstreaming%20critiques.pdf

I quote:
Nevertheless, the reality of governance feminism
calls for a reinvention of strategies of engagement
that are able to expose the workings of power that
make us complicit with ways of working, thinking,
and reviewing development that are inappropriate
and harmful. The important thing is to remember
that projects of government are never complete. The
most well thought out programmes never actually
reach fruition and have unplanned unintended
consequences. Thus, governing does not have a
totalising effect and there are always insurrections
undoing the perfect governmental project. Taking this
cue, future feminist engagement has to be both about
the politics of refusal, and of knowledge production
that is subversive which ‘defies reinscription in the
mainstream’

There was no mention of sex, so I don’t think it will have enlightened anyone on why feminists care.

Incidentally they are discussing gender on in touch as well. Quite interesting too.

I'm new to the whole debate. But I can't help thinking why did they never mention biological sex and being different from gender...? It's so obvious /weird, to not mention.. Sex is innate (for 99.9%) , gender is socially constructed (and so open to challenge, debate)? Am I missing something?

Listened to it and felt hopeful when they introduced the lesbian that they were going to seriously discuss body dysmorphia and how sad it is that so many teenagers hate their bodies and feel they can't be who they want to be in their bodies and how society has to change and be less stereotyped rather than the kids feel they have to change but then it went backwards again.
It was interesting to hear Jamie as after reading the Mermaid thread on here I went on her twitter feed and saw Jamie's youtube videos. Jamie is quite convincing as a man, his partner less so as he'/she still has socialised as a woman arm movements and mannerisms. On one video they were discussing sex as transexuals and I found it really sad that these two f to m transexuals, or lesbians depending on how you view them hated their bodies so much that they couldn't look at them or give their vulvas and clitorises names, even colloquial ones. They'd had mastectomies but not genital surgery.
I also worry that as I saw a homosexual put in a tweet "I no longer use the word queer as gender queer just now means a straight girl in oversized glasses with pink hair wanting attention for being different" and it's just the trendy thing and not much more radical than my view that women can do and be anything we want to, we don't have to fit in a girlie pink box.

This is the radio four generation though. They are not likely, as a group to be very aware of what has been going on until the last few weeks when it has been appearing in the papers. I only became aware of it in the last month or so. A week or two before man Friday kicked off. I read before I posted for a week or so as I was too scared to post in case someone pointed the finger accusingly. If there are people now going wtf or who read something because it was what they were talking about on radio 4 then that will be a result.

You are not missing something Whatevszz. What you've just witnessed is an issue being presented in a way that tells a digestible story rather than in a way that tells the truth.

I feel like the glitterqueer youth need their own movement totally separate from the LGB. Of course they don't want one, because the reason they attached themselves to gay people in the first place was in an attempt to piggyback on the gay communities fundraising/legislative success/public awareness efforts, but really, what do a bunch of straight people with pastel hair have to do with gay people? Not much.

That was actually there in the programme AngryAttackKittens, between the lines waiting to be read.

Transsexuals, transgenderists, and LGB are very different and things would be a whole lot simpler and clearer if this could be openly discussed.

I think I'm going to post this every time the BBC uses Jane Fae as an expert on trans issues, with Fae's fluffy knitting wool image: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consenting_Adult_Action_Network this is what Fae got up to prior to transition, as John Ozimek.

I could poke lots of holes in this but compared with BBC output to date this is definitely progress. The debate is starting to happen.

Interesting that the issue seems to have been shelved at women's hour lately, apart from there being the inevitable TIM in an all female line up. I understand why they don't want to talk bout it , but with the latest girl guides advice, they appear to be deliberately avoiding any mention.