DD thrown out of a women's ASD support group on fb.

[GrooovyLass]

Just need to rant - not sure if this is the right place.

DD is 18 and just starting to seek support for herself outside of the school/college environment. She joined a fb group a few weeks ago but got banned today because she said that her experience as a teenage girl with ASD would be completely different to that of a transwoman in the group.

That's it - she wasn't rude or anything, she just said that their experiences must, by definition, be different. I'm so fucking angry for her.

Maybe try and see it as a lucky escape that she found out early on how intolerant this group is, before she got too involved with them. It's ridiculous that stated an obvious fact is considered unacceptable to the point of exclusion from the group.

Are there any other groups she's interested in joining?

poor thing, that's awful, but I can't say I'm surprised
does she know any of them in real life? it may be that whoever is 'in charge' is very zealous on these issues but others are more relaxed

That's awful! You'd think they'd be more accommodating given that it's an ASD group!

Have you messaged the Admin?

She doesn't know any other members in real life. She has no interest in rejoining but it's also put her off joining any similar support groups.

That's outrageous!

Have they messaged her to give an explanation? If so, what was it?

Surely they can't be arguing that it's now transphobic to argue that transwomen's experiences may differ from ours? Because, especially (but not only!) in the case of teenagers with all the puberty related stuff going on that's just blatantly not the case!

They told her she was being transphobic and that she was "othering" the transwoman. Her response was that she welcomed anyone into the group but that her experiences (going undiagnosed until her early teens because she had learned to mirror and mask neurotypicals, which is a classic female ASD trait, for example) were exclusive to natal born women.

Hmmm ... get it. Which in the current climate would obviously be interpreted as meaning that she denies the transwoman's mystical inner essence of womanhood or something (seeing as the example quoted is based on behaviour rather than physiology).

I'd personally feel tempted to message them and go all PoMo snowflakey on their arses, accusing them of not being intersectional on the grounds that they disregard her experience of being an ASD biologically female teen. Don't think it'd change any minds but it can't hurt to try and play them at their own game for a bit.

So we can’t mention biology at all. Great. It’s now transphobic to say that two humans who are biologically (and physiologically different as a result) may not have had the same experienced due to their biology.

She just wants to forget about it, I'm sitting here getting angrier and angrier!

That’s awful, but sadly, I find many of these groups to be not as accommodating and quite judgmental toward others. I am on a few visually impaired groups, and have been banned from a few run by other people with visual impairments with quite close minds. Mine. Just look for one that fits you, i also have other disabilities other than a visual impairment and for that reason I have been bullied quite a bit, even though I do a fair bit with my life and have quite a lot of experience. Very hard to fit in, but I have learned to choose groups and friends carefully. Good people are out there, trust me.

That's really shit, GrooovyLass. I'm totally with your DD on this!

Unfortunately, it seems that this trans "shhh, don't mention biology and socialisation' rhetoric really is seeping into places at all levels.

It would be good to talk to her about her testing the groups to see if they are a good fit just as the mods will test new members.
Just as we interview the employer as they interview us it is important to be curious but not committed.
Also it only stings the first few times you get fooled by bait and switch groups who say they are for your group when in reality they are against your group.

If it’s the Facebook group I’m thinking of one of the admins is trans

Given 50% of trans people self identify as disabled there'll be a lot of this controlling and 'centering' going on.

OMG your poor DD. I am so angry on her and your behalf! Groups like this are supposed to be a safe place for marginalised groups to talk about their experiences ffs. What she said is perfectly reasonable. Hope she's ok

I have had similar experiences in a couple of groups on fb and I just left it while quietly seething.

I’m so sorry your daughter has had this experience. It’s a big step to “come out” (as such) on fb to a bunch of strangers and to then have your personal experience denied to you as being transphobic is bullying.

Sadly large swathes of the autistic community are buying into this TRA bullshit and we’re being used as badges of inclusivity when in reality we’re being preyed upon as vulnerable and impressionable people to be moulded into an online army to do their fighting for them.

It was a lucky escape for your daughter. Sadly I’m unaware of any autism related groups on fb where this isn’t happening and i’d be interested to hear from others if they do know of safe groups for us.

Much nethuns style love to your daughter. May she stay strong and keep believing in herself.

I don't know what it's called theuntameableshrew but that would make sense.

I think a lot of people with ASD struggle to fit in (I'm also autistic) and yes, I have noticed that for quite a large number of them they seem to be using gender identity as a way to try to do so, either by declaring themselves trans or gender neutral.

DD was dipping her toes in the water before considering accessing rl support groups and this has knocked that idea right out of her head now. I think that's why I'm seething so much.

She's actually finding it quite amusing how angry I am but she has said that she understands what hitting peak trans means now.

If it’s the Facebook group I’m thinking of one of the admins is trans

I think I was in that group. It very cliquey. I left because I got sick of being accused of not being properly autistic whenever I disagreed with them.

of course she is right.

suggest the sen board on mumsnet. she can be anonymous there.

I think she had a lucky escape.

It stands to sense that a lot of trans people are autistic. Gender is a social construct. All autistic people have trouble picking up on social cues. I am inclined to think autism is the primary cause of transgenderism. I don't think trans people are being unrealistic when they self identify as autistic, for the record.

I’m in an autistic group on FB too. Is it the one that begins with British?

I don't understand the connection between autism and trans at all. I know it exists but I don't get it. All the autists I know are very factual/logical and that's why social cues are missed. My DS has a pink 'dress' with cats on that he loves. He doesn't care that society says it's for girls because there is no logical reason for that. Therefore it doesn't follow that logic and facts are suspended for the sake of feelings.

I'm terrified of the trans issue because being autistic, I can't lie. I often know the 'correct' polite answer but if it's untrue I can't get the words out and I literally have to put my hands over my mouth to stop the truth coming out. If I find myself in a situation where I have to use 'correct' pronouns, then I'm utterly fucked.

Oh poor girl. It's so hard to get them to be pragmatic in this situation too. It was a trans person with ASD who upset dd so hard she took an od. Thankfully a small one but at least it led to her ADHD diagnosis and recovery.

Just want to send good vibes to your daughter and hope she finds an online forum where she can say what she thinks without fear of censure. ASD is massively different manifestation and incidence in men and women.