Self ID in other countries

[CisMyArse]

Has it caused any issues? In Ireland, Malta etc? I think my resolve is wavering to be honest and for my own sanity, I'm finding myself stepping back but also thinking about countries where Self ID is legislated. If there aren't any reported problems, then our voices will be taken with an even smaller pinch of salt.

Malta and Ireland are different cultures to the UK. Look at Canada, yes it is causing problems there for women. Its difficult to report as its illegal to say anything other than trans women are women.

I've wondered the same but when it comes down to it I think what matters is how it would work here. We've all encountered men. We all know how so many of them can behave and how they enjoy intimidating, mocking, belittling and dominating women. And we know to varying degrees the lengths abusive men will go to in order to gain access to the women they want to control, watch, film and/or attack. The awful fact is that many men despise women. That's enough reason to maintain female-only spaces.

That's not really answered your question, though, has it?!

i don't know how any problems would be reported. If a country has self ID it's now legal to expose yourself, voyeur etc in women's spaces. In fact offences like indecent exposure should fall because why would you do it in public when it's still a crime and you risk arrest, when you can just go into a women's swim change?

Also it becomes a hate crime to report suspicious men in women's change areas - transphobia. So reports of problems would fall for that reason too.

Basically you've made a bunch of problems (crimes) legal, and you've made it impossible to report them. So why'd would you hear of any problems?

It takes a while for stories about people taking advantage to come out.
Argentina has had it a while and this happened a few weeks ago

"Sergio, who was a divorced 59-year-old man, became Sergia under a law that allows a legal change of gender without undergoing sex reassignment surgery, the InformaSalta website reported.

In Argentina, women can retire at age 60, but men have to wait until they are 65.

"This is a clear case of abuse of misuse of retirement rights and of the law on gender identity," said Matias Assennato, the head of the Salta province civil registry."
www.nation.co.ke/news/world/Argentine-legally-changes-gender-to-retire-early/1068-4352176-6iecp2z/index.html

When things like that hit the media, it gives other people the balls to try it. Problems take a while to materialize but when theres literally no effort required apart from filling out a form people will of course take advantage

It also completely ignores a problem that will never ever be reported as it's incalculable. That is, women's trauma and distress, women not going for health screenings, women not going for sexual assault advice, rape crisis etc, women not leaving violent relationships because there is no longer a male free refuge.

I have wondered similar as some ex-friends have ostracised me as a terf after telling me how well self-id has worked where they live in Canada.

The only concrete thing that comes up is that our Equality Act 2010 is unique in its protections and no other country has similar so the effect of self id in the UK is more far-reaching than elsewhere.

Can anyone explain this more coherently please?!

Reporting by Pink News on how women made the Women's March unsafe by wearing hats - (remember they had a BDSM trans dominatrix as their main speaker);
www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/01/22/the-womens-march-was-made-unsafe-by-anti-trans-signs-and-pussy-hats/

Here's the same event reported by Feminist current;
www.feministcurrent.com/2018/01/22/vancouver-womens-march-becomes-opportunity-misogynist-threats-women/

Open letter concerning the conduct of a politician;
www.feministcurrent.com/2018/02/10/open-letter-bc-ndp-regarding-conduct-bc-ndp-vice-president-morgane-oger/

I've been trying to Google this several times but nothing is coming up. Would be good to know what issues it has caused. What protections were kept, what works, what doesn't work etc.

Looking at the advice here for the USA, it will be soon be very hard to tell if there are problems if this becomes the norm;

www.glaad.org/publications/consistent-respect-reporting-transgender-crime-suspects

Have a look at @iforgetalready on Twitter, who at this very moment is posting some chilling stories of men who've identified their way into women's spaces.

How can you gather meaningful statistics when a biological male can be female for statistical purposes?

The only concrete thing that comes up is that our Equality Act 2010 is unique in its protections and no other country has similar so the effect of self id in the UK is more far-reaching than elsewhere

And when activists discuss this, they say it's only like getting your ID on your passport.

Well it isn't. Because getting a GRC allows you to be treated as a member of the different sex to that before. (with some exceptions) because of the EA. It's got nothing to do with the passport - as that's something that you can change with a GP letter and a deed poll

If the bar is ‘has any woman been murdered by a trans man in a toilet or prison because of self id’ well then, everything is fine in those countries.

However, it’s difficult to measure the long term effect of losing the ability to define women and men objectively, the official endorsement of the concept of gender and the abandonment of scientific reason.

merry I thinks that's what worrying. There hasn't been enough elapsed time to know how this will pan out. So too many people are putting their fingers in ears and hoping it will all be ok. Surely SOMEONE needs to be mature and try and focus on the future?

Self-id and Germany

Since 1981 Germany has had the TSG - the Transsexuellen Gesetz (transsexual law)

This law allows transgender people to do two things:
-change their first name
-change the sex recorded on their birth certificate

This law has been amended umpteen times but as it stands, it's been changed to the disadvantage of transsexual people - to show that you really are transgender, a diagnosis of GID is no longer necessary and wanting to have surgery, take hormones or live as a woman doesn't really count either (terribly weird phrasing)

In order to do either of those two things, the person has to apply to the court where a hearing will be held. No lawyer is permitted to take their place, the transgender person is on their own. After the hearing the court investigates, ordering two separate and independently conducted assessments of the person to be made.

In case only the first name was changed, if that person goes on to father a child or give birth, the name change becomes invalid and they have to repeat the process. (The child's birth certificate will always identify the parents by their birth sex and first name.)

A self-id process is now in the works which will do away with the hearing in court and the court ordering two separate expert opinions on the transgender person to be made. That is, the upper chamber has voted yes to urging the government to bring this in, but when it will do so is unclear as of today.

Thanks everyone. This is incredibly frustrating. I'm trying to talk to my MP about this and it's totally fingers in ears and 'all is well'.

I've asked about the violent threats and harassment women put up with for expressing fears and it barely got a recognition.

I'm so fed up with this. Where's it all going? It's only last month that we were remembering the Suffragettes and the sacrifices they made to fight for progress for women, yet many are now happy to see Women's rights being infiltrated the men.

Suited that's scary, and some of it is already here

Cis my arse: I talked to mine about the homophobia in the transgender movement, and the damage done to young lesbians and gay men. One can show them evidence. There could be no 'bigot' accusations after that, and if they know nothing about it, as they usually do, it leaves them flummoxed but with a dim idea about how they themselves could challenge it without looking bigoted.

In Canada the journalists have started putting a picture of the transgender perp in the article so that people can see that they are saying woman and are actually talking about a transgender identified male suspect.

Some places that moved to self id previously required those who wanted to be recognised as the opposite sex to undergo surgery. We don't which is another reason why the UK is different and doesn't need self ID.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.christianpost.com/amp/sexual-violence-reports-target-stores-spike-transgender-bathroom-policy-study-216795/

I went looking for France to see their rules then came upon this: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_rights

(If that doesn't link I'll post again).

All the countries, but the top talks about "sex assigned at birth". I've never edited Wiki things. How easy is it, because that needs to change!

Pratchet, can you point me in the direction of this homophobia please? I want to have a file of evidence at the ready as I'm getting more vocal about this.