This is not the most important thing ever but what do you think ? Re dress codes

[BasiliskStare]

This is my second foray into the feminism boards . I am sticking my courage to the sticking post and saying something.

DS ( early 20s ) now has to go to some things where there is a dress code) . Not terribly many but he does. The thing he said was " it is so much easier for men - because things tend to be described as in " dinner jacket " " lounge suit & tie " - so whatever you think about those dress codes - you know what to do. , He said it is harder for women to know what to turn up in. I know this is probably a very trite post , but Ds did just say , it makes it harder for women . Because they have to make a judgment on what the men are wearing ( unless they have been given specific instructions)

So in the grand scheme of things not the most important , but just a thing he made me think about.

I am not going to lose sleep over this , but something Ds & I were chatting about and made me think

I agree with your son and I think things are actually getting worse for women. I’m just after chatting to a male friend and we were reminiscing about the 80s fashion. Adam Ant, Boy George, goths, etc. There was something sexy about men that wore makeup, in those days, but I think it was because they wore it in a different way to women, iykwim. They didn’t wear it to look like women, but to look different. Most of them looked really good in it. I would go out in a trouser suit, short hair and tie, think Annie Lennox, one night, then mini skirt and high heels the next.

It’s all changed now. The line between female and male fashion has become so wide, that it has restricted what they can wear, without being thought of as odd.

I’m going to a wedding soon and will be wearing high, but thick heeled boots, under a long, soft pair of trousers and top. When I’ve been asked what I’ll be wearing and tell people I keep getting told the heel on the boots ‘might be a bit chunky and wouldn’t high heel shoes look better, even though the trousers will hide the heels and I’m recovering from a badly damaged knee! Little hints about ‘treating’ myself to a nice dress. Ffs, I’m 50 and can’t be arsed in high heels and dresses yet I’m still being treated as if I’m odd for not wanting to. I wonder when I’ll be considered old enough to know my own mind? 😒

Dh looks gorgeous dressed smartly. He has one suit, and one smart shirt to wear with that suit, and one pear of black knee socks to wear with the one pair of plain, smart, black shoes to wear with the suit. He has three different ties, sombre, elegant and flamboyant, to suit the occasion. This is his outfit for weddings, funerals and job interviews.

Me? Do I even need to describe what dressing smartly involves for a woman? And how much more it costs? And how people would react if I always turned up in the same outfit?

It goes both ways. Men are expected to wear suits and ties in a very formal setting. I'm fine with dress codes as long as no one forces me to wear skirts/nylon tights/ high heeled shoes. I suppose a wedding would be a slight exception, I would take the wishes of the B and G into account, if they were having a formal event I would probably wear heels as long as they were reasonably comfortable, and some kind of longish skirt or dress, just out of respect.

He said it is harder for women to know what to turn up in

It really isn't.

This has been discussed before and has always struck me as complaining about something just for the sake of complaining - for example posters will usually pitch in that it is impossible to find formal/dressy shoes which are flat or low heeled. Or similar nonsense that one is forced to wear high heels with formal dresses.

Based on husbands Christmas dos and the very rare 'event'

Im really pissed off with the dress code bit

Black tie for a man and then some sort of made up rubbish for the woman

So recently in a football stadium the code for women was red or white evening dress for the teams colours

Or its floor length, or cocktail or 20's theme or something

A friend recently had a dress code for her 40th (dresses)

Im not doing it any more...I usually wear my own version of a tux

And how people would react if I always turned up in the same outfit?

They would not even notice.

Thinking of the last 3 very formal events I attended (not that long ago) I can recall 2 particular dresses and that is only because the 2 women in question are very clothes concious, the dresses were very expensive, we had discussed them before the event , they from a particular designer and I fully expect the owners will recycle them as often as I recycle my Vivienne Westwood dress (which is frequently).

Everyone else? I wouldn't notice. No idea what they were wearing.

A friend recently had a dress code for her 40th (dresses)

My 40th birthday had a formal dress code.

I go to lots of formal work events - business attire, lounge suits or black tie are all easy enough to understand. I don’t notice what other women are wearing and I don’t expect they notice what I’m wearing. Of the many inequalities to get your knickers in a twist about, dress codes are not one.

I got really annoyed (silently ) with a couple of years go at work.

Xmas do posters said

Men - smart dress, black tie preferred
Women - dress to impress

Women's evening attire is so uncomfortable, complicated, restrictive, revealing. No pockets so you have to carry stuff or have a silly bag. Hair. Makeup.

Men's is so much more comfy and straigthfroward. "Me, in a suit". Pockets. Normal shoes. No feeling that probably they should have worn special underpants.

Our work do did a survey - how would we feel about not a sit-down but a stand up snacks thing next year.
I said - well fine - but remember lots of women wear very punishing footwear.

No we don't have to - same as men don't have to wear black tie if it says black tie - but let's be honest - most people don't like to stick out like a sore thumb.

Lass - I apologise if this is an old topic. I didd not know. I am not worried about finding dressy low heeled shoes

My point was more the traditional "black tie" / "lounge suit" opposed to a clear direction as to day dress / long dress / cocktail dress etc.

Oh even as I am typing I realise I shouldn't have opened this thread

Seriously I am not some evelyn waugh - esque person - it was interesting to me that my son made a very proactive comment about how things are sometimes made easier because of tradition - and I refer specifically to clothes - for men. ( And I know it's not the end of the world to be invited to a party and have to think what to wear.)

Rufus - I once went to a wedding where they specified black tie for the men , I wore my own version of a tuxedo - probably looked better on Charlotte Rampling than me , but hey ho.

The interesting thing as well is that "dress codes" seek to exaggerate difference.

In my workplace on a normal work day, the male and female "costumes" are very different. On dress down day - the men and women much more wear the same (jeans and a tee). Look at oscars or whatever - the men are all to look the same, presumably to "allow" the women to "show off". It's weird and unnatural TBH. Left to our own devices, most people dress for comfort and the gap between the sexes narrows.

Hmm I always think its harder for men in term of dress codes as they have to fork out so much money for 'a suit'.
I only ever wear dresses and I could potentially use the same dress day to night and just put on a bit more lipstick and a big necklace and tie my hair up... and them im 'formal' without actually having to spend loads of money.
I think there is a lot to get wound up about when women are forced to wear heels however. I never wear heels to anything and doubt I could even stand up in a pair. Boggles the mind that anyone could think it was appropriate to ask a woman to wear them for work.

No it's a fine thread.

Just because some posters disagree / have talked it all before doesn't mean that it mustn't ever be brought up again.

It's your second thread - brave to start threads! - and it's something you want to talk about.

• kudos to your son

It's only a problem if you care too much what other people think. I like smart business because you dont't have to think, all my working life I just wore trouser suits and flat shoes.
Socially if there was a theme I would ignore it I'm afraid as I don't like to be told what to wear.

windchimes remember that disabled woman who was up for an award at cannes but was turned away at the door as she didnt have heels on?

Some have said it's ageist as well -
Heels are often a young woman's game.

Agent

I am not getting knickers in a twist - really, honestly not. I just thought it was interesting my son said proactively it was easier for men when going to something reasonably formal , because the dress code is expressed in typically men's dress terms. Honestly , not losing sleep , it was just a comment .

I got my knickers in a twist about the "dress to impress" thing

They weren't Spanx so it was easy enough to untwist them, fortunately.

yes I think the heels stuff is disgusting. They can be very painful and seriously damage some womens feet. If women want to wear them than fair enough but there is no situation in which they should be expected to wear them.

Another one that also winds me up is bras. Its fair enough to enforce wearing a bra or a vest if someone is wearing something that is see through in any way, but other than that I think its massively invasive to dictate what underwear a woman has to wear. A man would never be told to wear underwear so that his junk conformed to certain shape that was deemed 'smart'. I cant be the only person who finds it really weird that women have to have their breasts moulded into a certain shape to be considered 'smart'?
Had big issues with this at school as well because I have very small breasts so would often just wear a vest or nothing at all in the summer under my shirt. My shirt was in no way see through but I was actually told to put a bra on by teachers several times because they could not see straps or I assume because the shape of my breasts was too natural or something.... really odd. Then conversely youd sometimes get told off if a strap could be seen and it wasnt flesh coloured.

You are not wrong. Well done your DS.

My bugbear is the amount of flesh women are almost expected to bare. Compare this with a suit. Nothing on show and it hardly shows the man's shape. I wish more women, including professional women would wear trousers, shirts and jackets like men do to normalise it.

Dukes - thank you ! It was genuinely just a thing where my son said - I think this is a thing where it is easier for men than women & it made me think

To others , apologies for bringing up an old thing - I am somewhat new on this board

"Dress to impress" would tee me off no end.

Women's evening attire is so uncomfortable, complicated, restrictive, revealing

I don't posess a single item of formal wear which fits any of those categories.

Your son sounds lovely. Hope my sons grow up like him.

I have a gold and black diamond patterned dress I bought 18 yrs ago. I wear that each time. It’s fun seeing it in photos _ like a piece of furniture in my life.

My bugbear is the amount of flesh women are almost expected to bare

By whom? Of the most recent formal dresses I bought (both very formal and very expensive) one has a high mandarin collar and long sleeves; the other has bracelet length sleves and a neckline at my collar bone. Both have attracted loads of compliments.

This thread is just the usual complaining and exaggeration that appears on all similar threads.

You don't need to apologise for starting a thread. Not all topics have to be brand new or earth shattering.
And I agree with your DS. Its much easier to find 'a tuxedo' than a formal dress, shoes and accessories of precisely the right tone, especially when you have a smaller budget or need flat shoes.

Lass - I apologise if this is an old topic. I didd not know

No need to apologise. Most topics get recycled. You can see what my views are and I agree Agent Provocateur's comment.