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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

This is just. I have no words.

78 replies

ReappearingWoman · 31/03/2018 16:15

Shock

This is from a tweet by @mayday4women. I can't figure out how to get the link with the accompanying screen shots but you need to read those to get the full picture

So Pink News writer, Benjamin Butterworth, who today criticised Dawn Butler MP for discussing concerns around sex becoming self-defined, pretended to be black to attend a LGBT event.
Here’s the open letter LSE students wrote to Ben asking him to give up the black reserved space

If someone else can add this bit, it'll make my post coherent Grin

So PN - so open minded their brains have long scuttled away after collectively bolting from residence - the 'writer' of a piece criticising Dawn Butler for meeting wimmin to discuss women's concerns on GRA etc. has form for sharp elbows & a staggering lack of self awareness.

Who knew eh? 🤦‍♂️

OP posts:
SimonBridges · 31/03/2018 19:14

Because then black people would then be able to self ID as white meaning all these privileged white men would lose their privilege.

See that won’t happen. You can’t self ID ‘up’, only down.
A black person IDing as white would still be black. Notice how black people in business really struggle with what to do with their hair for example so that they fit in to a predominantly white system.

Straight white middle and upper class men are at the top. The only way they can make themselves more interesting is to become an oppressed minority.
I’m not saying that for all or even many trans people it is a choice but I suspect the ones that are shouting the loudest are the ones who weren’t getting noticed as a middle class white male, like LM.
Notice how transmen and lesbians are missing from this.

SimonBridges · 31/03/2018 19:20

The argument that I've come up against is that to become a transwoman you are putting yourself into a an oppressed category, doing so makes your life infinitely harder than it was before, there's no gain except that you get to join a group and have people tell you how amazing and brave you are all the time.

TerfsUp · 31/03/2018 19:41

You can’t self ID ‘up’, only down.

That's not exactly true. There are transmen and black people have, historically, noted their ability to 'pass' for white due to their colouring. Also see Rachel Dolezal.

Backingvocals · 31/03/2018 19:48

They are hiding rather than declaring themselves to be such and such. Ditto all the women who had to pretend to be men to survive. Not self iding.

Elendon · 31/03/2018 19:51

Rachel Dolezal had given birth to mixed raced children, so there was a connection. A biological connection.

thebewilderness · 31/03/2018 19:58

The argument that I've come up against is that to become a transwoman you are putting yourself into a an oppressed category, doing so makes your life infinitely harder than it was before,...

The gaping flaw in the argument is that men view women as having the advantage in social interactions. They say so constantly.

Ekphrasis · 31/03/2018 20:32

Wtf?!

Andrewofgg · 31/03/2018 22:17

Can I self-identify as an arsehole and join him?

Xxfemale · 12/04/2018 21:38

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Yeahnahyeah · 09/04/2019 20:26

Glad to see this getting some more sunlight on Twitter
Check out @SamBarber1910’s Tweet: twitter.com/SamBarber1910/status/1115613023257939970?s=09

KatvonHostileExtremist · 09/04/2019 22:05

What an absolutely massive knob

donquixotedelamancha · 10/04/2019 00:13

In Benjamin Butterworth's* defence, his position on self-ID of race is entirely consistent with his view that TWAW. Suggesting he is not black, because of the colour of his skin, is just cisracism.
Cisblack people need to centre transblack people in their activism, because clearly they are more oppressed.

*Are we quite sure this is the name of a real person and not a cartoon character?

Lamaha · 10/04/2019 06:59

If a man can self-identify as a woman, a white person can self-identify as another race.

And also, a black person can self-identify as white.

I would have loved this growing up. I was very dark skinned (mixed race) in a colonial society where whites were a privileged minority and racism was accepted and nobody blinked an eye, everyone knew that white people were better in every way.
I longed to be white. I hated my skin, my hair, my lips. Deep inside I knew I was just as much worth as a white person but my body denied me the verification that I WAS equal. I KNEW it, though. I was in fact a white person living in a black body.

It wasn't until I was 16 and began to understand racism, and racism began to be actively opposed and fought against in the UK and the US, that I realised the error of my thinking and not only accepted my colour but was outraged by the self-hate I'd been socialised into.

How is this any different from girls hating their bodies because they know they are as good as boys, and thus want to change?

In fact it was my thinking that should have been changed as a child, not my body. It was the socialisation that was at fault, not my physical attributes of dark skin, frizzy hair, thicker lips.

Add to my confusion that I wanted to be a boy from the years 19-13!
And then getting very fat when I was 17, due to deep insecurity!

Body denial and hatred was very strong within me, but my body was in fact fine. The change that had to come was internal, and it came late but it did come.

Lamaha · 10/04/2019 07:01

steups. 10-13 not 19-13

KatvonHostileExtremist · 15/10/2019 11:00

This needs a bump today, obnoxious little man

Michelleoftheresistance · 15/10/2019 11:30

The screenshotted letter makes no sense. If someone is only required to identify as BAME, as the letter states, then BB did. What they mean is, BB is patently, obviously not BAME and it's offensive for him to use that space/represent people politically with no lived experience.

Which women say constantly. But we keep getting told if someone identifies as something then it's heresy to not validate them in all ways.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 15/10/2019 12:12

Hardly surprising, and I was wondering what manner of outcry would ensue when (and it was only a matter of time) they tried to pull this one off. If they can appropriate the entirety of the female race and attempt to re-categorize them as something they're not in order to insinuate themselves, then why would they have any compunction about doing it with skin pigmentation, too?

The question is, what will it take for someone to put these entitled little shits back into their box?

Racism, homophobia and misogyny: good. Transphobia: bad. Some animals are more equal than others ...

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 15/10/2019 12:52

Why does it need a bump today? What has the terribly earnest Benjamin Butterworth done now?

Heyheythey · 15/10/2019 14:47

Because Benjamin Butterworth is the one who’s gunning for Piers Morgan to be sacked because of his views on trans people. He set up the petition and appeared on GMB with Piers and I believe Piers did his usual Schtick. Not a fan of Piers myself but Benjamin Butterworth is totally out of order for depriving a BAME person from attending the LGBT conference. He needs to ‘check his privilege’ and have a look in a mirror while he’s at it. Outrageous.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 15/10/2019 15:39

Oh, I did wonder why sack/save Piers was trending on twitter - but, only took a cursory glance on account of I assume that's the standard take on him being on tv.

BB is an idiot. So is Piers, of course.

MockersthefeMANist · 15/10/2019 16:21

Great Joke in "Silver Streak," where Gene Wilder and Rchard Pryor are on the run and Wilder has to black-up in the gents. He seems nervous.

"What's the matter?" Pryor asks. "You worried it won't come off?"

NotTerfNorCis · 15/10/2019 19:53

Just had a look at the #firepiers hashtag and there are loads of comments attacking 'boomers'. Is that a thing now? First time I've seen it.

KatvonHostileExtremist · 15/10/2019 20:24
Sticking this here for posterity. Penis News has been full rabid today so BB is obviously pissed off at having been made to look like the wee cock he truely is.
ErrolTheDragon · 15/10/2019 20:27

Just had a look at the #firepiers hashtag and there are loads of comments attacking 'boomers'. Is that a thing now? First time I've seen it.

I don't know, but it sounds nastily ageist to me.

KatvonHostileExtremist · 15/10/2019 21:11

Yeah, it's the kiddies attempt to show the world they are the first to disrespect their elders.

Gosh, no one's done that before. How edgy!

Oh and I'm sure we are all "Karen", she's an older women who likes to complain to your manager etc etc. Yawn.

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