'a certain kind of sex is vanishing from the internet'

[agender]

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/mar/30/congress-online-sex-trafficking-bill-impact-sex-workers-craigslist

One of the Guardian's euphemisms. They repeat it " a particular genre of online sex, it seems, is vanishing from the internet."

They are referring to prostitution.

Why do they use euphemisms?

4x the funds directed at removing university fees (most benefit to middle classes) than to repairing the cuts to social security or legal aid combined (most benefit to working class women).
Thanks for the actual figure-I did wonder. Then we can have even more mediating pomos jobs educating women and the working class to know their place. And to understand what is expected of them under the new world order.

@SpringNowPlease2018

I think every aspect of media will do that, but that's not my issue with them. At the moment, I feel like I need some sort of guide to understand what they are saying. Like when an article appeared which I think - not sure - was written by a transgender woman, who hadn't had medical transition, but wanted access to rape crisis centres.

It took me a while to understand who wrote the article and that was key. But it isn't just the Guardian doing this - I've reached the stage where I don't understand what I don't understand so I don't know how or where to start understanding what's going on.

I think the key is to debunk the stats that are quoted and you could help in that - well I have set myself a little project to do that - in a private FB safe group. The stats quoted are not statistically reliable, significant nor using standardised control group research methodology - and they are crap and the Guardian allows itself to be manipulated by not following up on the source of the stats. there's also letters to write to MPs and the lie from a template provided - PM me if you want to assist

Place marker.

I’m getting immense knowledge out of this thread. Thank you.

I think my problem with the Grauniad is that it advertises itself as of the left but consistently takes (somewhat disingenuous) editorial opinions that do not benefit women and/or working class people.

This article is a perfect example. It's anti-woman in a paper purporting to espouse feminist values.

At least with the right-leaning papers, you get what they advertise - right wing views.

I find that whatever news source you use, you have to do so much digging around to get a more balanced view on any issues. Eg this proposed online sex trafficking bill which is definitely a step in the right direction but there are some issues with it. Not all survivor networks support it, you can look at Freedom Network twitter feed if you are interested. But my main point is that because we don't really have a media outlet with fair reporting, we so often don't get the full picture.

The point is, that in a democracy, you need views and experiences and values from both the left and right to make good political decisions.

If you automatically dismiss an argument because of who says it, out of prejudice (irony klaxon) your mind is closed.

Yes, it is prejudice to dismiss an idea or argument purely because its spoken by the 'wrong' political colour.

The argument should stand alone. We should judge on the idea alone.

Good journalism should be actively looking for the argument, not the celebrity or status or identity of who says it.

That, this is not happening, shows the break down in quality of journalism. And the breakdown of the quality of journalism is directly related to decline in the quality of debate, and by consequence of that the decline in democracy full stop.

Here we are. Right on cue:

Leave.Eu @ officialleaveeu
Labour know exactly how to sort out a crisis and get back in touch with the base.

Eddie Izzard: working class hero.

We think not 🤣

And here's an article in the independent saying its transphobic.

www.indy100.com/article/brexit-leave-eu-offensive-tweet-eddie-izzard-david-lammy-racist-8284826?amp&__twitter_impression=true
Controversial pro-Brexit group tweet 'vile' image mocking Eddie Izzard

Yes it is. In part. But its not simply a comment about trans. To dismiss it as merely transphobic, is to make one of the fatal flaws of the referendum and just dismiss everything as nothing more than racism.

This is the far right, trying to point out the middle class 'liberal' blindness and lack of self awareness in order to win support.

Izzard is a gift to the far right.

The way he presents himself, adds to effect, but its only an additional factor to an underlying issue.

During the referendum Izzard and Geldof provoked the response of some hardcore remainers uttering that the pair had the effect of making them want to vote leave.

Their campaigning was so utterly cringeworthy and painful to watch even if you were on the same side.

Note: not just Izzard. Those comments related to the way in which they spoke to others which was in a manner that got people's backs up, and smacked of arrogance and privilege.

Expect much more like this.

Well they're not wrong. Born to globe-trotting expats in a British colony, St Bede's Prep school then Eastbourne College.

Not sure I see the trans part particularly. Although perhaps it's transphobic to even imply that the average British trans activist is a wealthy white male.

Terfin, that's the point.

One side is seeing a transphobic comment and saying its offensive.
One side is seeing something entirely different.

Self awareness is important.

This can be used against people. And actually if there is an underlying prejudice it helps to reinforce that subconsciously.

@womanformallyknownaswoman

thanks, I appreciate that. Sadly I have written to my MP three times on self ID since the start of last year and received no reply.

We know each other - I mean, to say hi in the supermarket sort of thing - through some community work I did, and I have a feeling that his lack of reply is because he wants to say "piss off you TERF".

He has always communicated fully and replied rapidly in the past on other issues. I find that very worrying but having chased up twice, I think it's a waste of energy to do it again.

I have to say that even as a labour supporting leftie remainer, I was put off by izzards eu ref performance. I can't even say why, maybe it was the preachy arrogance? He wasn't the only remain campaigner to make me think ffs, but maybe he'll prove himself in the new role.

Spring, I would walk right into his office and ask him why they fuck is he ignoring you!! Was he dragged up from the gutter?? But then I'm a Derry girl so I don't respect office! I respect the person and so far he is undeserving!

Last, I did think about this, I sort of still am pondering but it would actually be better if I want for a community event and say "by the way" without a pre booked appointment.

He hasn't been shy of disagreement before, all perfectly polite but robust....it's like this is such a freaking elephant in everyone's rooms. Cloned elephants!!

*wait not want!

That stupid indy500 site is like Buzzfeed.

I guess it's convenient to be able to pretend that what's getting people's backs up about Izzard is his taste in clothes (which is now called "transphobia" because what do words mean?), but really it's the smug let me explain to the silly working class people what they ought to want tone that's pissing people off.

Those pictures Red of the miner and Izzard really capture where Labour has gone and his it's lost its roots - and who can relate to Izzard - a few, young, woke, university educated blokes & women?

Really Labour are way out of touch. I had hoped the unions getting more involved might help - we will see. They are certainly way out of touch that's for sure.

Its depressing isn't it?

Wigan ain't Westminster.

Yep and Wigan also evoked Orwells' Wigan Pier and captured the hard working northern working class culture

Depressing it is - it makes me realise that after the trade union movement was decimated by Thatcher & her neocon US friends, although more women are involved and are members now of trade unions, and some hold office, there doesn't seem to have been that one iconic photograph to replace that of the miner - the one that evokes working class struggle, female and male - at least I can't bring one to mind.

I just looked on the Unite site and no pics - mainly graphics. Their comms and PR needs a review

Speaking as a Wiganer (already outed myself all over the place by mentioning that my MP is Lisa Nandy). I don't have a problem with Eddie Izzard. Bit preachy as you say, but I've laughed at some of his routines and he's a long term labour supporter. I can't speak for everyone in the borough, but I imagine there are plenty like me, others who think he's a knob, and a reasonable share of people who might find him objectionable because he's trans (i.e. actually transphobic as I'd define) . .plus some fans who think he is the Bees Knees (used to be a great pub in Wigan by that name...).

Is Eddie Izzard trans though? Does he claim to be a woman? Is enjoying wearing clothes stereotypical of the opposite gender sufficient to classify you as trans and give you legal protection under that status?

I do know that if you told most people in Wigan (myself included) that Eddie Izzard is actually a woman and that if you say 'ok, but he used to be a man yeah?' you're being transphobic, they'd tell you to stop being so bloody ridiculous and get your head checked

Sorry, that should be 'get yer 'ed checked pal'.

Lisa Nandy is a northern woman from a small town. The liberal bubble does not extend that far. Its not overwhelmingly middle class. Its no surprise to me to hear what she is saying. I'd be more alarmed if she wasn't. I've heard no small amount of dislike and distrust of Corbyn from similar circles.

I think Lisa Nandy is a very ambitious woman (not a critcism) who recognises the issues raised in this thread and their particular relevance in her constituency and to her constituents.

I have heard it said that politics in this country badly needs a northern female leader for some time.

I don't know if Nandy is that person, but I totally get why the idea is being floated.

Yes I have heard those suggestions too. I haven't had any real dealings with her but she talks sense and seems to have good instincts - having said that she supported the Owen Smith leadership challenge
My Labour membership is hanging by a thread. It's only because I feel that she and the party locally do a good job on the whole that I am still paying my dues.
I am not a Corbyn supporter and I'm not a Blairite either - couldn't bring myself to join when he was in charge because the party was not socialist enough for me. But Lisa, yes, I think I could get behind Lisa for the leadership.