Ulster Rugby Rape Trial - Not guilty to all charges

[Quimby]

Verdict just returned
Not guilty to all four accused, all unanimous decisions.

I believe her

Not in the UK, not in a place with an extradition treaty. Meh

I believe her.

As I pointed out upthread, given that the test for finding someone guilty of rape is that the jury must think, beyond reasonable doubt, that the defendant did not have a reasonable belief that the woman consented, believing the woman's account of what happened is quite compatible with accepting that the court reached a not guilty verdict.

So... I believe her.

Re what school you go to. I'm probably older than most of you but you used to ask to try and ascertain if you were Protestant or Catholic. This isn't so reliable any more though.

As I pointed out upthread, given that the test for finding someone guilty of rape is that the jury must think, beyond reasonable doubt, that the defendant did not have a reasonable belief that the woman consented, believing the woman's account of what happened is quite compatible with accepting that the court reached a not guilty verdict.

Exactly. As I said on the other thread, it's perfectly possible to believe both him and her, because they could both be telling their truth. And that would, in NI law, make him not guilty, given that for it to be rape he'd need to have had no reasonable belief she consented. So this could theoretically be what the jury thought.

Marvellous idea of Jackson's to get this before a court making a decision on the balance of probabilities anyway. That couldn't possibly go wrong for him.

Another thread elsewhere using this case to argue for anonimity for men who are accused by women of rape.

I think that women and girls everywhere deserve to know what these men are like so that they can avoid them... That seems entirely reasonable to me.

If only it was publicised ALL men that are like this,

So that we can avoid all of them. Would be awesome.

Sadly, it's not.

I just feel so angry, sad, frustrated and helpless. How is this judicial system allowed to continue where it is so in favour of the alleged rapist.

I am heartened to see the protests but feel I need to do something? I couldn't go to them. I have done the petition and donated to the go fund me page for the full page advert in the Belfast telegraph.

Why as women are we lesser than? I have a baby boy and am due a girl in a few months and I'm genuinely sad for the life and world she is coming into.

In this case it's not just women are lesser but the men are considered valuable.

They are very high value and she is very low value. Who does she think she is to complain of her treatment at the hands of such inportant men?

She didn't stand a chance and she knew it. We all knew it.

A helpful twitterer has compiled a list of contact details for Ulster Rugby sponsors.

twitter.com/treasa5555/status/980455526940184576

Something else that has just occurred to me. All these people saying “regret isn’t rape” and that she just woke up the next day and regretted it etc. She was hysterical that night. she was already subdued and quiet the moment she left the room. Harrison met her standing outside of the room just standing there silently. She went downstairs and was crying as they waited for the taxi and by the time she was in the taxi she was sobbing enough for Harrison to report back to the others that she was hysterical. She didn’t go home, have a sleep, sober up and realise she’d gotten a bit adventurous. Her upset was instant.

Her upset was instant.

Absolutely.

And if the sex was consensual, then why didn't the men question why she was 'hysterical'?

Why not reply 'what?! How come she's hysterical, is she ok? What happened?'

Also, wasn't there a lot of deleted messages that police couldn't recover? I wonder what they were.

There has been some suggestion that those messages related to buying drugs but I’ve no idea where that has come from.

I hope in the future technology moves on to the point any deleted message can be recovered even years afterwards

I think the drugs thing is a convenient excuse. You can't imagine how bad those messages were for them to say they were about illegal drugs rather than about what actually happened that night

Can I share a brilliant piece I've just seen on facebook about this.

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10214476020961578&id=1451253701

I noticed this work which might be interesting to follow.

Terms of reference include "To consider the evidence that pornography creates a conducive context for sexual violence, or leads to copycat crimes, referencing current research, and the impact on young people".

I know there have been threads about porn but this work may be of interest here as like others I find the acceptance of sex that causes injuries one of the more troubling aspects of this case.

links between pornography and sexual violence

One lady I was talking to at the Thursday protest in Belfast said PJ's family had rented out a rugby club bar for the whole night straight after the verdict for friends & family to celebrate the acquittal.

Whilst not relevant to anything, if this is true (&I have no reason to think otherwise), it just adds to the entitled and unfeeling option ion he seems to have of himself & it keeps coming into my head & makes me more angry.

I'm going to email all the sponsors & Ulster rugby too to object to them representing my country in any way.

One of the very worrying elements of the "reasonable belief" clause is that sexual abusers generally DO tend to rationalise what they have done and convince themselves it was ok.

This is very common amongst paedophiles who will genuinely tell themselves that their victim consented.

MOST rapists will be telling themselves it isn't rape WHILST they are raping.

Which begs the question - why is what is going on in a sex offender's head more important than what is going on in a victim's head?

Some disgusting messages on the Facebook ulster rugby supporters page if anyone would care to leave a few choice words ?

toally agree ravenheart, its a total invasion of privacy

donthave - it's a closed group so I can't see comments. Don't want to join just to see/comment but that is very sad. Hoping there are some Ulster rugby supporters who are able to give balance& condemn their actions without being accused of being unsupportive of UR as a whole. Sadly,
I think that's what a few loud shouters are likely to do in groups like that

www.facebook.com/RugbyUlster/posts/1794307150630616

I'm upset also that most of the males I know (in NI into sport and dads to girls) aren't interested in this story or debating it. It's in the newspapers they buy but no one is mentioning it.