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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Ulster Rugby Rape Trial - Not guilty to all charges

980 replies

Quimby · 28/03/2018 12:35

Verdict just returned
Not guilty to all four accused, all unanimous decisions.

OP posts:
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10
AssassinatedBeauty · 30/03/2018 11:25

Don't be daft, you're the one who said there was a lack of evidence. Can't you explain why you think that?

confuddledconfuddle · 30/03/2018 11:29

@wordtothewise I have not said the guys are guilty - I have said taking that out of account they are still vile, from their messages and disrespect of other human beings.
Based on this they are not who I would choose to represent my country.

I also don't think a girl will put herself through that if she truly doesn't believe she was raped. However I think it comes down to did they believe they didn't have consent. I'm not sure that they were so egotistic that they don't believe of course she would want to have sex with them.

I think the fault comes down to our laws. Men and women should have to seek consent - are you ok if I touch you, are you ok to do this, and check that each other are happy. Not plough on and after go shit I didn't realise she didn't want me - like who wouldn't want me

Angelsoul2k15uk · 30/03/2018 11:31

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confuddledconfuddle · 30/03/2018 11:32

I think to myself as a student in Belfast - I was asleep drunk on a guys bed who I was seeing at the time. I woke up he had gone and his housemate was looking up my skirt. I didn't say no to him - so was that ok? Did I do anything about it - no, it didn't cross my mind I could. I think most girls will have a story of #metoo

I won't even get into the worse ones Sad

confuddledconfuddle · 30/03/2018 11:33

@Angelsoul2k15uk I have been to many many parties! I have went upstairs with boys and kissed them, when they tried to take it further I said no. They said ok, we kissed some more and went downstairs! So no my daughter has a right to say no at anytime, just like any woman

tootsweet30 · 30/03/2018 11:33

Yes how dare a 19 year old woman attend a party. I wouldn't let mine out the house after 7pm!Hmm

NotTakenUsername · 30/03/2018 11:34

You can consent to one act but not another. You can consent to sex with one person but not having their friend join.

That’s not conditional consent. That’s consent to one sexual act, and then consent would be required for the further/different sexual act of introducing another person.

Quite the same as consent to oral sex does not automatically give consent to penetrative sex.

In the case of the prostitute you are quite correct, she has been robbed.

I agree that it is abhorrent behaviour, but there is a difference between rape and taking advantage and to act as if it is otherwise is, in my opinion, counter productive. It makes us look ill informed.

The jury in this case had no choice but to aquit. The judge had no choice but to act as she did to avoid an inevitable appeal. The prosecution acted within the scope of the law to discredit this young woman.

It is the law that stinks, regardless of the facts of this case, it is the law that needs to be changed.

Ereshkigal · 30/03/2018 11:36

I actually hope that some posters here find themselves in court one day accused of a crime they did not commit (a transphobic hate crime would be most apt given the way some seem to want the holding of negative opinions about women by men to be illegal).

Why do you want feminist women to be accused of transphobic hate crime just because you feel they are negative towards men and want to punish them for this? You're a peach, aren't you.

confuddledconfuddle · 30/03/2018 11:36

I had housemates in uni who openly admitted to sleeping with over 100 fellas and that's fine - they consent, they wanted to. I did not judge. However if they said no to 1 guy does that mean that they can ignore it as she has slept with so many others.. no it doesn't! Maybe the cup of tea analogy may help with your simple views

People with your views disgust me @Angelsoul2k15uk

JaneJeffer · 30/03/2018 11:37

Yet apparently her facebook's full of naughty photo's and video's of herself? When she consents she doesn't generally seem to care who sees what? But now she's shy all of a sudden?
The clue is in the word consent. And "naughty" just plays along with the bad girl stereotype. Her lifestyle previous to this incident has no bearing on what happened.

tootsweet30 · 30/03/2018 11:37

And angel soul she went to go get her bag! Or should women not be allowed upstairs for any reason other than sex anymore?

Anyway, it doesn't matter what she thought would happen. You can be half way through sex and tell them you want to stop. If they carry on , it's rape.

But it's clear with minds like yours why they were found not guilty.

confuddledconfuddle · 30/03/2018 11:40

A girl can be naked and still say no, so no matter what she is wearing or not wearing. No matter what way she is acting, she can be known as cock tease and still have the right to say no!

Is every girl on a beach crying out to be raped because they have little clothes on - aghh angers me so much that people have such outdated views and that poor men can't help themselves so it's all the girls fault!

I don't even class myself as feminist - so it is not due to that!

Angelsoul2k15uk · 30/03/2018 11:41

confuddledconfuddle I complete agree with you. All women have the right to say No at any time.
But u didn’t answer all the post. Inviting urself to a house party when u know no one suggests to me the person is not shy or “behind the door”
Calling others sluts sounds very judgemental also. Especially considering her behaviour.
It’s just let’s not make her out to be a wee quiet little church going angel. This has to be taken into account when considering all the information. Not just the information that suits ur opinion but rather the whole circumstances.

Angelsoul2k15uk · 30/03/2018 11:42

Tootsweet30. How did her bag get in the bedroom in the 1st place?

Ereshkigal · 30/03/2018 11:43

It’s just let’s not make her out to be a wee quiet little church going angel.

You do realise not only "wee quiet little church going angels" get raped? Right?

NotTakenUsername · 30/03/2018 11:43

I don't even class myself as feminist - so it is not due to that!

Maybe you should. We should all be feminists! The world would be better for everyone (even men!!)

AssassinatedBeauty · 30/03/2018 11:43

No, it really doesn't need to be taken into account. Her previous behaviour and her personality are irrelevant to whether she was raped or not. She was behaving in a totally typical way for a young adult, as were all the other people at the party.

CarrotyO · 30/03/2018 11:46

She had a real fear that photos or videos had been taken

In court she explained that she turned her head away when the other woman walked in on them so as not to be photographed. She was being raped for god sake, it is incredibly painful and utterly humiliating. When I was raped my friends were in the same house and I was mortified at the thought that they had heard me screaming in pain. I was ashamed of what had happened to me and that anyone had overheard. It is reprehensible that people are accusing this woman of not having the correct responses to being raped. The entire trial was victim-blaming at its finest. What on earth has society come to when we think it is acceptable to put rape victims on trial like this? A large part of rape recovery is coming to terms with what has happened to you, understanding that it wasn't your fault, that the responsibility for the pain and trauma caused lies solely with the perpetrator. Rape trials re-traumatise victims due to the emphasis on victim-blaming as a way to exonerate the defendants. Why is it that the physical and psychological trauma of the victim are considered irrelevant in determining the guilt of her attacker? Why are men allowed to inflict internal injuries by claiming they believed she consented to it? Why are men's thoughts considered more important than women's actual bodily harm in the case of rape? The judicial system is a joke, rape laws are a joke, it is beyond my comprehension truly it is. This case has made me so angry, I will never get over it, something has to change.

tootsweet30 · 30/03/2018 11:46

Can tell you go to lots of parties. Pretty normal to put all bags and coats in a bedroom.

It also doesn't matter if she went to dozens of parties where she had loads of sex. It's still rape if she said no.

LassWiADelicateAir · 30/03/2018 11:48

Angelsoul2k15uk

I can't be bothered replying in detail to your posts but goodness you have posted some claptrap.

tootsweet30 · 30/03/2018 11:48

And why are all your questions on HER behaviour not the men's? Is it because theirs was vile and misogynistic consistently by any chance?

Ereshkigal · 30/03/2018 11:50

Carroty Thanks me too.

Angelsoul2k15uk · 30/03/2018 11:53

AssassinatedBeauty not totally correct. The others at the party were invited best of my knowledge she was not. Others knew each other. She did not. Others didn’t have their bags or go into bedroom to retrieve bags. She did.
So her behaviour is not typical of most adults as if I was having a party in my house I’d like to know just who is attending. Nor was it typical of others at the party

LassWiADelicateAir · 30/03/2018 11:54

Angelsoul2k15uk

Tootsweet30. How did her bag get in the bedroom in the 1st place?

Is putting a handbag in a bedroom some sort of signal of availability for sex ? Like wife- swapping couples traditionally putting car keys in a bowl?

Angelsoul2k15uk · 30/03/2018 11:55

LassWiADelicateAir I’m sorry if I offend u. I’m sorry u think my post to be claptrap as I do not agree with your opinion