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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

The Sun transwedding headline

56 replies

HakunaDentata · 27/03/2018 12:44

How is it that I find myself agreeing with The Sun?!
Has it really come to this?

People being outraged at the headline with comments like 'why not just say man weds woman' and leave it at that' when obvsly the only reason for the headline & focus on this couple is the trans angle. Cue hurt tweets from happy couple saying 'I've always been a man/woman etc'.

The Sun transwedding headline
OP posts:
PsychoPumpkin · 27/03/2018 14:42

The headline is atrocious! The story though is pretty much ‘two trans people get married’ which if we strip it down to (close your ears trans allies) biology, basically a heterosexual marriage.

My heterosexual marriage didn’t make headlines but I hope theirs is as happy as mine is!

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 27/03/2018 14:43

Spoke to a freind today who thinks there is not just hetro, homo or bi sexual

She says there is like 56 different ones now depending on how they ID

I did explain that i thought that there were in theory still only the three...

But the couple concerned are to all intends and purposes in a heterosexual relationship...i wonder if she saw the headline

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 27/03/2018 14:44

psycho

Good point...

Yes i hope thay will be very happy together

AnotherQuoll · 27/03/2018 15:16

Weddings are expensive, so I'm sure the cash was helpful, as was whatever deal they struck with The Sun's photographers but of all papers, The Sun? Lying down with dogs, getting fleas etc

BoreOfWhabylon · 27/03/2018 15:26

The couple are described as 'Patrons of the transgender children's charity Mermaids'.

Hence the claim to never having been the sex they were assigned at birth.

PsychoPumpkin · 27/03/2018 15:35

How can they deny their past. There are photographs of both of them when they lived as their birth sex (forever sex).

Catspaws · 27/03/2018 15:38

@HakunaDentata agreeing with the words in red only doesn't mean you aren't a bigot.

Apologies if you thought I was being snide - I was aiming for 'openly critical' but obviously wasn't clear enough.

Original poster
HakunaDentata · 27/03/2018 15:47

@Catspaws thanks for calling me a bigot for agreeing with biological facts. You do realize that by your standards most people are bigots?

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 27/03/2018 15:49

The couple are described as 'Patrons of the transgender children's charity Mermaids'.

As in customers or as in donors?

They seem nice and happy. I'm sure there are many other weddings the Scum would rip apart. Gay people, immigrants, whomever. Trick is to not give them the chance by inviting them.

Catspaws · 27/03/2018 15:53

@HakunaDentata yes, I am unfortunately aware of that fact.

BoreOfWhabylon · 27/03/2018 15:55

It doesn't specify MrsTP

But I can't help wondering if Mermaids saw the wedding as a marketing opportunity and pitched it to The Sun.

Original poster
HakunaDentata · 27/03/2018 16:00

So @Catspaws I'm curious.
Is it bigotry to know these people were not man/woman previously and then point it out publicly?
Would it be bigotry to think it but never say it?

OP posts:
LizzieSiddal · 27/03/2018 16:01

Agreeing with facts and biology, does not make anyone a bigot.

KnitFastDieWarm · 27/03/2018 16:04

The headline is vile. My concerns are with self ID alone, i absolutely despise any attempt to shoehorn a bit of bog standard bigotry into that. But hey, it’s the sun so I don’t expect anything else.

Catspaws · 27/03/2018 16:05

@HakunaDentata you appear not to understand the distinction between sex and gender so perhaps I should clarify that you might be ignorant rather than bigoted. I suggest you do some self-education via the wonders of Google.

UrsulaPandress · 27/03/2018 16:06

Can't wait till they have children.

Beerincomechampagnetastes · 27/03/2018 16:06

They are both affiliated with Mermaids, they’re using their wedding as a PR excercise. Look under the curtain folks!!

CircleSquareCircleSquare · 27/03/2018 16:08

The headline is awful and if the name of the publication was covered up, we would still all be able to guess it came from The Sun.

I am always happy for any couple who find love, however they come to it and genuinely wish them every happiness.

I do have a question - if Hannah was always a woman and Jake was always a man and they deny their trans status, then how does this make them in anyway special? Surely you can’t have it both ways?

Biologically Hannah is male and Jake is female making them a heterosexual couple.
To them they were born Hannah as a woman and Jake as a man, again if that were true, that would again make them a heterosexual couple.

How do either of the above statements warrant an article?

AnotherQuoll · 27/03/2018 16:44

Patrons of Mermaids? I say....You'd think Mermaids, being well aware of The Sun's form and reputation, would've advised this couple to stay away from the Murdoch rag for their own good. I wonder why they didn't?....

Terfmore · 27/03/2018 17:17

twitter.com/spikedonline/status/978610081750224897

have waded in with a defence of the truth.

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 27/03/2018 17:21

I'm the biggest gender critical person going, but this headline is cruel and unnecessary. They're a straight couple, wether or not you buy into the "transwomen are women/transmen are men" rhetoric. I can't imagine for a second they wanted to be associated with this joke of a paper

CapnHaddock · 27/03/2018 17:51

The headline is absolutely grim. But they gave the Sun an exclusive interview. Red tops are red tops - they always exploit. I'm surprised Hannah and Jake didn't realise that. They've been v poorly advised

Terfmore · 27/03/2018 17:53

are they a "straight" couple though? I agree they are heterosexual but that does not tell the whole story.
I worry that to dismiss this as simply a straight couple, "what's all the fuss, they love each other" means being inadvertently pulled into a narrative of trans rights.

Agreeing they are "straight" without commenting on the fact that Hannah is a man and Jake is a woman feels like collusion.

MissPiggysKarateChop · 27/03/2018 17:58

Meh - the story is nothing and I'm all for people getting on with their lives and being happy as long as noone is hurt.

But this:

I think that if you're horrified by your bedfellows on this issue, it might be time to have a good hard look at yourself and wonder why you're now on the same side...

pisses me right off. Despite the fact we are placing people in decreasingly smaller boxes with multiple labels it still isn't necessary (yet) to be replicates of each other with EXACTLY the same views on everything. It is even possible to hold the same conclusion about an issue but for differing reasons - Imagine that! So it doesn't bloody matter if you share the same views as a human with other abhorrent views (see Hitler and vegetarianism) it doesn't actually make you the same as that person because most of us are individuals with the ability to think critically and form our own conclusions.

I'm sick of reading this point of view it is woefully short sighted and, frankly, lazy thinking. So give over with this shite.

OlennasWimple · 27/03/2018 18:15

Here's the Mermaids' page on Hannah and Jake

Interesting that Jake was involved in lobbying Stonewall to include the T in their LGBT work. And that Hannah is in the military.

Sun headline was unnecessary, but completely in keeping with their usual house style. I wonder if the Sun heard about the wedding and said in advance that they would be covering it, and the reporter was invited along in the hope of getting a more positive story?