Swim England - update

[misscockerspaniel]

www.swimming.org/swimengland/engaging-trans-people-facility-operators/

Posted on their website a few days ago. (Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere).

oo consultation? could go either way

So pretty much admitting they jumped the gun and implemented policy on the say so of stonewall or [ insert trans group name here] rather than checking the equality act and doing impact assessments?
I wonder if Girl Guides etc. could be made to do the same?

Gender the Guides are having to rethink. Article in todays Times, they interviewed a MNer its linked on her thread

This is SUCH a wow moment.....

Whatever happens, they have recognised they were hasty and need to consult more widely....

We need to keep an eye and engage in the (blink of an eye) consultation as you can be sure the TRAs will. We need to have sane, gender critical voices heard. Let’s not let them dodge around this.

That's good that they are re-thinking things, or at least reviewing their stated position.
Too many people and organisations are jumping to show how wonderfully modern and "inclusive" they are without considering that these policies exclude other groups

It's a small positive move.
This is what happens when organisations take advice from those seeking personal validation rather than those looking at the safety and wellbeing of everyone.
Swim England were in a particularly invidious position as the transgender pressure groups regularly breach safeguarding guidelines in their materials and training. A sport where mixed age / sex participants have to remove all clothing in changing rooms and where there is no common standard of changing room facilities is opening itself to significant charges when the inevitable abuse / assaults happen.

How are they defining steakholders?

I've emailed - you can bet the TRAs will.
To become involved in the consultation please keep an eye on www.swimming.org/swimengland or email [email protected] and the team will forward the relevant documentation

Women, girls, parents - everyone who uses these facilities is a stakeholder. Email away and share here if poss

What rowdywoman said.

I've emailed. It's important that they hear from parents.

I have shared this on Twitter and also emailed them asking to be consulted as a user of swimming pools

It might be worth taking a look at their safeguarding policies as well as their other guidance for engaging other marginalised groups.
Like many other sporting organisations, swimming has a history of some dreadful incidents of child abuse, both at local and national level so I would guess that they are bound to have good and rigorous guidance.

I've taken a quick look and predictably they have a comprehensive and thorough set of safeguarding materials. I also found this:
The ASA is currently working with the CPSU, ASA Facilities Team and commercial facility providers, to try to encourage pool providers across the nation to separate the sexes of school-age children in mixed changing villages. We strongly recommend that clubs engage locally
with pool providers to create simple barrier systems, or make use of natural barriers between cubicles (e.g. lockers, etc.) to enable mixed
changing villages to be used as separate changing areas for either sex. This is likely to help prevent the crime of any covert use of cameras or phones, etc. by one person on another of the opposite sex. (See
the guidance on pp. 67–69 and 76–77)

In complete contrast the their trans guidelines! The capacity of the trans pressure groups to gaslight organisations and make them abandon their well tested safeguarding advice know no bounds. We know this stuff - it is evidenced through so many cases of abuse and serious case reviews yet trans organisations are being allowed to run amok and undermine basic safeguarding principles everywhere.

Template for anyone not sure what to write:

Good afternoon,

Thankyou for opening up the guidance on this matter for consultation. I would like to be involved in the consultation and request that you send me the relevant documents.

Best regards,

Emailed

Emailed

Bravo rowdy - that's exactly what we need for drafting purposes.

I will not let them squirrel out of this.

What would you like to see?

I can see how their policy is wide open to abuse. There are other organisations such as the YHA which have a similar policy.

I am lucky as my local swimming pool has a changing village. It certainly helped me carry on swimming as there are just loads of cubicles as well as shared showers where people just keep their clothes on and private showers.

It's certainly shown that #manfriday has had an impact.

SwearyG
There are probably other contradictions but thought I'd start with the changing room issue - and of course Swim England get it - they've had to deal with the fall out on numerous occasions.
It's why 'this never happens' is such a bloody lie. It happens regularly and why we have allowed trans groups to promote this nonsense I can't imagine!

What's a changing village please?

What's a changing village please

A mixed area with lots of cubicles, including large ones for families and those with disabled access, toilets and showers, including large private ones leading straight to the poolside.

A changing village is where the pool has no separate men and women’s changing rooms, but lots of cubicles with communal locker areas, showers and sometimes bogs. Our local big pool has this set up. The cubicles are enclosed but have gaps under the partitions and no bars over the benches, so you could stand on them and look over the partitions. There have been lots of voyeurism and indecency offences, reported with depressing frequency in the local paper. I prefer to use a smaller, grottier pool nearby where the men and women's changing is segregated.

Thanks for explanation

I am place marking as a very keen swimmer. I hope if anyone on this thread becomes aware of a consultation opening they will post here?

Any chance we can now get Hampstead ponds to reconsider?