What do you use the womens’ toilets for?

[FancyRibbon]

Inspired by recent posts on the Radio 4 thread.
I realised that the whole ‘Why do you even care who is pissing in the cubicle next to you?’ argument against single sex toilets underestimates how I think many women actually do use/need the ladies’.

It’s not just about the cubicle being private to you as an individual woman (though this is really important), it’s also about knowing there is a door behind which there is a women-only space that can be really important. Some of that is specifically about it NOT being a male space.

So eg what I use the women’s toilets for is:

• pissing, crapping, dealing with periods, POAS
• a place to cry especially at work when you don’t want anyone else to see
• a place to go and just sit and feel exhausted because your baby is not sleeping and you’re back at work

-as above washing and drying breastmilk leaks on clothes which involving standing about with some stuff off

• a place to sort out falling down tights and gappy shirts, -against adjusting/taking off clothes possibly while checking in a mirror
• somewhere to talk to other women privately knowing men won’t be around
• in bars and clubs, a place to get away from male hassle

I just don’t want to share women’s toilets with men. Self ID will be making that not my choice any more. I feel that I won’t be able to just avoid gender neutral toilets and look for a women’s any more, because women’s toilets won’t exist and campaigning for them will be hate speech.

And if you ask a male if they masturbate at work, most will do it between one and several times a day.

WTAF!! Are you serious? How do you know this? I can’t imagine any of the men I know sneaking off to the loo to wank! I’ve never thought to ask my male friends or colleagues this but as my Dh and Db who are with me are horrified by this comment this can’t be universal?

Sorry Rumpled I have asked a lot of men - usually with alcohol involved. One former colleague admitted he started every day with "a wank into the sink"... probably not what you want to hear. So probably not what men will tell you...

I don't much like seeing my own menstrual blood, never mind anyone else's, but as a grown up I know that is part and parcel of using public women's toilets (provided that the seat is left clean for me to use - I shoudln't have to wipe up any bodily fluids before I can use the loo)

Thing is, all the stuff that has been mentioned on this thread are the sorts of things that TIMs will never have to deal with (sexual harassment aside). It would be great if they would actually listen to women, as well as experts in the UN and other aid organisations, who understand that single sex facilities are critical to allowing women and girls to participate in public life

Toilets in women's toilets are for wee, poo, period blood.

Sinks in women's toilets are for hand washing and tooth brushing.

Rinsing our a mooncup in the sink of a public toilet is disgusting! Absolutely no need.

Where we live most women's disabled toilets are part of the women's washrooms. I have seen disabled women come out of their stall without their clothing covering them/done up because they require assistance. They are helped and made comfortable by other women stepping up to help them out in a distressing situation.

I had noticed this after going through the experience myself. I had an injury that combined with my own disability meant I had a great deal of trouble dealing with my clothes. So when I used a loo, I had to have someone help me do up and adjust my clothing after I came out of the stall.

Ticks me off when able bodied women with zero empathy say 'it's not a problem for me, so who cares'.

I no longer use public loos ( and hopefully can continue to avoid them ), but I certainly care about those who do and their right to privacy/safety.

Not cis here either. Try applying that label to men and see what you get.

And Datun and her moon cup would be welcome in my loo. A woman doing woman things, why would that be an issue. Or is this more of the 'how dare women talk about their reproductive system'.

Absolutely no need.

What do you mean?
No need to use mooncups?
No need to rinse mooncups?
No need to be out in public on your period?

Sinks in women's toilets are for hand washing and tooth brushing.

Rinsing our a mooncup in the sink of a public toilet is disgusting! Absolutely no need.

Im curious, what exactly do you think the hand washers are washing off their hands??

As per the posts of everyone else - I share most of the same uses, especially not being able to fit a toddler and pram with newborn in the same cubicle, experiencing a miscarriage and generally going there to feel safe (to avoid unwelcome male attention).

My biggest worry is for teens, at school I had horrendous periods - I hated sharing with other girls and having others in the cubicles knowing I’d spent five minutes cleaning up, disposing of san-pro and unwrapping new. Going out to wash clearly bloodied hands was bad enough, having any boy (even if he claimed to feel like a girl) in there would be embarrassing.

As a side note, does anyone know what feeling like a girl / woman is like? As a female I’ve never experienced that - but did experience a hatred for my boobs, periods, cramps, PMT. Does that mean I felt like a boy?

SexMatters I have had heavy periods for almost 30 years and have never once needed to rinse out a mooncup in a public loo. And yes it would gross me out to have a strangers period blood in a sink where I was brushing my teeth.

Do you use a mooncup?

TBH Im surprised by all the toothbrushing. I have never seen anyone brushing their teeth in a public loo

Ugh. men wanking in toilets. Chrissake. Now I’ve started stressing about jizz on the bog roll.. which as PP have said, is not immediately visible unlike blood or poo. Fucking hell.

I’ve brushed my teeth in public loos, loos at work etc etc after a long day, a garlicky lunch, going out after work, too much sweet food etc etc. I see other people doing it too, I don’t think it’s weird.

Toothbrushing is a lot more common than mooncup rinsing IMHO.

Surprised people would feel the need to breastfeed in there too, I never had bother feeding in public.

I only wee and poo in the loo, maybe change a pad (I've always had light periods and now they are dwindling anyway) - I don't do much, if any, of the things mentioned by others on this thread; no kids; no preg/fertility tests; I'm never likely to need to call Women's Aid; I don't really ever need to get away from men; I don't think I've ever sat in the loo and cried and certainly not at work, etc

However, unlike so many trans'women', I am not a self-centred knob and I know not all of life is about me, and I know that other people have very different experiences - so, despite not really caring much myself if there is a man in the ladies' loo (I note the refurb at work has changed them all to single cubicles with basins, reckon the sex denominators will come off soon) I fully understand the fact that many women would be made more vulnerable by 'shared' spaces and support campaigns to prevent it.

So - fucking Labour Women's Officers - where the fuck are you!? It's NOT all about you.

Now I’ve started stressing about jizz on the bog roll..
I think the majority of men would be mortally embarrassed to have someone discover their semen after they've been in the loo, so clean up carefully. But then again, male entitlement and everything, I am not that confident.

I hate that women are constantly expected to come up with reasons and justification to say no, so those reasons can be decried, 'reasoned with' and proved unfounded. It's mansplaining.

Third spaces, yes, great, I'll help campaign. Everyone's right to privacy and dignity, yes, great, I'll help campaign. Any woman's desire for privacy and dignity becoming legally secondary to the wants, feelings and needs of people born male? You have to either be on glue or hate women to think that's a good idea.

It’s not uncommon for men to wank in toilets, obviously not all men but common enough that it was spoken about in my previous job.
After a particularly stressful few hours in ED, the many of the male doctors (not the nurses) would make it clear they needed to relieve stress. They seemed to find it hilarious.

Surprised people would feel the need to breastfeed in there too, I never had bother feeding in public.

How you can’t grasp that not every person on the planet has the same lived experience as you is beyond my comprehension.

Do you think people who have a leaked stoma bag should not wash their hands after dealing with that? I’ll wash out my mooncup in the appropriate place - the loo sink.

No "cis" there's just men and women, don't assume everyone is unhappy with who they are. Most are not.

I understand the issue of men 'self IDing' falsely for access. But also I don't think its reasonable to expect a transwoman who is living as a woman in all possible ways to go in a mans toilet.
Just like I wouldn't have an issue with sharing toilets with a lesbian who 'may be attracted to me', or with someone who was born intersex (no clear gender) and so may not have the same anatomy or typical female experiences as me.

There's a bit of common sense needed. A man wearing a dress - no. But a man whos undergone surgeries, or hormone treatments, or is clearly making every attempt to appear as a woman long term is a different situation.
From my point if view, it's body dismorphia, which is a mental illness (sorry if anyone doesn't agree with this) and therefore I don't see the benefit of making their lives any harder than necessary in genuine cases.

I'm a long-time lurker, though relatively new to mumsnet. Always been a feminist and I'm in my mid-fifties. I peak-transed in January, thanks to mumsnet. I read all the threads and I've signed the petition (and got my male partner to sign too). I am NOT cis.
Just wanted to say that this is a particularly excellent thread and it should be sent as a link to all (especially female) MPs. It really encapsulates the issues with self-ID and public toilets.

And by the way, female is a protected characteristic. An adult human female is a woman, I need no prefix - to attach one to me is dehumanising and if you want to play that game literal violence. If anyone calls me cis I will report them to the police for a hate crime, I am fucking serious.

I have done all the aforementioned in the loos....I had a miscarriage, i peed on a stick (that cubicle I will never forget as my son came along 9 months later).

When I was at school, I had one friend. My parents were very religious and so I was sheltered growing up (understatement). I found it extremely difficult to form relationships as I knew nothing about what girls my age were talking about or interested in.

When my friend missed a day, or we had exams at different times, I hid in the toilets. Sometimes for hours at a time. I just hid in my own little sanctuary as I couldn't bear the thought of being by myself and everyone looking at me. If some boy had come in to MY sanctuary I think I would have cracked. I was trying to escape the male gaze for Pete's sakes!!!!

I think people who defend this utter evil are indefensible- they are being so cruel to women and girls that I wonder what sinister force is behind all this.

I remember I even ate my lunch in the toilets. Forgot that until now!! Aahhh...I feel so sorry for the sixteen year old me!!😥