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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Have any of you ever 'come out' as being a TERF?

48 replies

VladmirsPoutine · 23/03/2018 23:59

I mean IRL rather than on MN or other online communities. If so what sort of reception did you have?

My siblings said 'oh okay', and the conversation moved on. At work it never came up so I didn't have the opportunity to 'come out' as it were.

But just curious if it's something you've brought up with friends, dc, partners and so forth?

OP posts:
SwearyG · 24/03/2018 00:12

DH told me I was ridiculous but is now TERFier than me.
My mother asked me what was going on so I sent her an explanation and some links and is broadly onside.
My sister is on here and is increasingly liking my tweets Grin

My friends aren’t as easy. One is onboard but the rest think I’m being unkind and that I should live and let live. I’m hoping that the Commonwealth Games and Laurel Hubbard will convince them once and for all. I haven’t lost friends yet but it’s certainly a topic we agree not to talk about. As shown by FB posts that are tumbleweed central.

I’m most surprised at the very activist types I know that have said nothing - and I was in the papers/on the radio terfing it out this week.

thebewilderness · 24/03/2018 00:56

I have explained a number of times that TERF is a misnomer since Feminism is the political movement for the liberation of women. To be included one would actually have to be a Feminist, and not an MRA or TRA or whatever political egalitarians call themselves these days. Further, I inquire if they have ever asked themselves why the women's movement is the only one that is criticized for doing what every political movement does.
At this point an interesting conversation begins or they run away screaming.

UpstartCrow · 24/03/2018 00:58

I'm not a TERF and object to the term, in the same way I object to CIS. I've always been a feminist.

Custardo · 24/03/2018 01:02

my mind boggles at why any one section of society would want to exclude another

Izzy24 · 24/03/2018 01:02

Ply dij

VladmirsPoutine · 24/03/2018 01:04

Upstart I too object to the term CIS. It's either a made up term or a term co-opted from science to rewrite the concept of womanhood. But I think Terf is quite a complimentary descriptor.

OP posts:
fascinated · 24/03/2018 01:05

A tactic to start off the convo without needing to be critical of trans people at all - can you use a very British approach (disclaimer THIS IS OBVIOUSLY LIGHTHEARTED BUT WITH A SERIOUS UNDERTONE... possible script a la

“I say old chap/chapess, have you heard about this new law they want to bring in for trans people?

No, what’s that then?

Well, apparently they want to make it easier to change sex. Just signing a form. Sounds great for them, used to be they had to get an operation. Surprised they are not even keeping the Dr’s letter bit, but there you go. They won’t even need hormones, apparently. It’s amazing.

[Responses to this will of course vary... and you will probably find out more about your interlocutor’s stance and how much they already know]

Well, old chap... it’s all very well and good, but I wonder what they are going to do about the unintended consequences? (you could scratch your chin or tilt your head at this point. Look concerned. Gaze into the distance. Etc.)

Unintended consequences, you say? What’s that then?

Well, I mean, obviously it’s great news for people who are genuinely struggling (not that I fully understand it myself), but what about the chancers/[perves/jokers/folk acting in bad faith- you can of course adjust the tone throughout depending on your audience] ?

Chancers? What do you mean?

Well if it’s that easy anyone could do it, couldn’t they?

But that’ll never happen/men wouldn’t do that etc etc!

Well, I don’t know... do you really think so? It’s easier than [becoming a [teacher/priest/foster cared —- use best example for your audience], isn’t it? To go into the ladies where the women and little kids are, you know?

But but... that’s transphobic!

Oh no I am not talking about the genuine ones, I’m talking about folk who will want to abuse it...

Oh but you just would call security if there was a dodgy one in there...

Well, yes, normally I would, but the trouble with this new law is that it says doing that would be a hate crime.. and with Posie Parker being arrested for [explain facts] and that feminist lady getting banned from Twitter for saying [what did she say exactly?] I just worry that security might be too worried about being accused of transphobia to do anything... and I might even get in trouble myself. It’s a pickle isn’t it old chap/chappess?”

Hopefully by this point you have managed to cause a few things to dawn on your interlocutor ... obviously peppering it with examples is ideal if you can. Because there will be unintended consequences and even the trans supporters should see that.

But surely they [The all powerful They, again] will make sure they draft the law in such a way that it can’t be abused?

Well, you’d think so, wouldn’t you? But I’m not sure. I mean even the existing exemptions don’t seem to be be being used.... [throw-in a few examples appropriate to your audience eg girl guides, prisons, refuges, schools etc]

But that’s terrible! [maybe...or you will certainly have a sense by now what they think!] but they are surely not real trans people?

Well, I don’t know? Who is a real trans person nowadays? I mean it used to be someone who had had surgery “down there”, you know? But that’s not needed any more, apparently...and without hormones or a diagnosis, well, I mean, it’s not as though you have to do much to get these rights... how could you be sure it really wasn’t just a phase? Or as I say, some kind of cad using these new laws in bad faith [add appropriate facial expression at this point if you deem it helpful...]

Hmmmm. Do you really think so?

I don’t know. It’s all so complicated. I do hope they get the wording of it all right. Is there a consultation on this, do you know? Maybe we should write to our MPs or something... or maybe we can start a petition.. I’ll check on the gov.uk website... oooh look there already is one!!!!

The key is to keep bringing it back to unintended consequences

Do not attack TiMs

Hopefully this helps raise it with unwitting folks around you in RL

Feedback welcome

Definitelyrandom · 24/03/2018 01:05

DH wasn’t really aware of it but was horrified when he learnt more. Both DSs (late teens/early 20s) are gender critical and fairly appalled at their “woke” peers. DS1 (philosophically inclined) reckons you can blame the enlightenment and Descartes for encouraging people to think transidentifying males are women. He also thinks that we should be arguing more robustly against people like Judith Butler - fair point, I think.

fascinated · 24/03/2018 01:22

Disclaimer again - obviously everyone’s views differ wildly and I am not putting words in folk’s mouth. Some of you will be able to bring yourselves to utter some of the sentiments above and will prefer a more combative style. The wording above is something I would anticipate using in situations such as the school run, a book club, family gatherings, lunches or drinks with friends, other parents at DC clubs/play dates etc etc where you suspect no prior knowledge, a likely desire to be PC but not at the expense of common sense....

fascinated · 24/03/2018 01:23

Ffs will NOT be able to utter these sentiments!!

thebewilderness · 24/03/2018 01:32

I know, Custardo. Why can't the women just effing submit and then all conflict will end forever. And yet the women persist in claiming they have the right to say no.

Lampage · 24/03/2018 01:35

Generally no due to my job.

But I have with close friends and family. One reaction from a friend with many TiM friends said "I'm confused about what Trans means now".

It took me a while for my head cogs to turn as I was initially hugely sympathetic with trans people (transwomen in prison etc).

It's incredibly difficult as I think most of us come from a perspective of being incredibly open to difference and empowering minority groups, but the TRA ideology is trampling on women's rights. We must have the voice to scream NO! But we're called bigots for doing so.

I'm openly a feminist on all other issues on my social media and at work but I only post on here regarding Self-ID etc, or discuss with carefully selected people IRL.

Sad times. I hope as knowledge is spread this will change. MN is fantastic for being the platform to enable discussion 

TheFootOfMyStairs · 24/03/2018 01:44

I'm a totally 'out' TERF'.
At work - I run a women's refuge - it hasn't taken a great deal of explaining to my co-workers and they're all TURFing out loud now too. The reception there? "Fucking men."

In my personal life - my daughter totally gets it and is a TERF. My son - I don't see him as much and the opportunity to talk about this hasn't arisen. My real friends are all on board. I have a gay male friend who is almost as fired up by TERFing as I am - but from a different perspective, obviously - and my friend that grounds me (we all have one of those, don't we?) simply remarks "fucking wankers".
I'm actually not friends with people who can't/won't/don't accept my TURFy women's liberationist opinions. Life's too short....

If TERF is a label we accept and adopt we should do it proud, in my view. I know we didn't create it - it's been 'assigned' to us - but it's not actually a misnomer for me. I am a radical feminist who excludes trans-activists! (Not all trans people, you'll note.)

Lampage · 24/03/2018 01:47

BTW I don't consider myself a TERF.

TERF is a slur. But I accept it's used in an ownership way by the oppressed group as many slurs are.

Zoflorabore · 24/03/2018 01:50

Genuine question. What is a terf?

TheFootOfMyStairs · 24/03/2018 01:58

@Zoflorabore - TERF = Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist

ie. those of us who are feminists - not the fun kind.

fascinated · 24/03/2018 01:59

@zoflorabore

Google it and you’ll find out... I’m genuinely not trying to be difficult. I want you to see why we are so concerned

Lampage · 24/03/2018 02:11

TERF is the new word for witch, bitch, whore, slut, slag, cunt, and (according to trans-activists on Twitter) anyone discussing women's rights issues on MN.

CadyHeron · 24/03/2018 02:11

I'm actually not friends with people who can't/won't/don't accept my TURFy women's liberationist opinions. Life's too short....

See, I'm apparently one too (for maintaining that there's only two sexes - male and female) but I can't get on board with cutting people off/blocking/not being friends with people because they don't believe what I do. Isn't that exactly what they're doing, but from the other side?

Genuine question. What is a terf?

Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist. Basically anyone who believes in biology being a real thing from what I gather. Women's biological bodies are a real thing.
You can't just identify as a woman one day, keep everything intact downstairs/appearance wise and then be full on male again next week. Gender fluid and all that.

CadyHeron · 24/03/2018 02:13

TERF is a slur. But I accept it's used in an ownership way by the oppressed group as many slurs are.

Meh.I can live with TERF. As it's grounded in reality and sense and that's fine by me! Grin

Lampage · 24/03/2018 02:18

CadyHeron

Fine by me too Smile

Time40 · 24/03/2018 02:29

I'm out and proud. And everyone I know agrees with me.

TheFootOfMyStairs · 24/03/2018 02:45

@CadyHeron - interestingly, it's not me that 'cuts people off'. I'm in huge favour of discussion leading to personal edification and development but there must be something about open TURFism that makes some people feel seriously uncomfortable.
I don't have enough time in my life to help them with that, I'm afraid.

TheFootOfMyStairs · 24/03/2018 02:50

TURF.... I'm laughing at myself here - again! Grin Grin Grin

I have so swallowed the bs....

thebewilderness · 24/03/2018 02:55

It is the term tigtog used when she ordered the Radical Feminists off her blog cuz we aren't the fun kind. That was years ago but it has caught on as a slur for uppity women.