Trans child suicide stats

[SirVixofVixHall]

Paris Lees stated as fact on BBC Question Time last night, that 45% of trans children in this country had actually attempted suicide. Surely this is not true? Surely (even if this is true, which I very much doubt) stating this goes against all safeguarding guidance for suicidality?
I remember reading that Mermaids quote a similar figure and that this is based on a deeply flawed and tiny study, that is being mis-represented. I am going to complain to the BBC, can anyone link me to the actual study used?

Try this:

www.transgendertrend.com/a-scientist-reviews-transgender-suicide-stats/

I think it's this one. The older mermaids study of 27 people has a slightly different percentage of suicide attempts.
www.transgendertrend.com/stonewall-school-report-what-does-suicide-rate-mean/

If however you're looking for something that specifically refers to 45%, try this:

www.transgendertrend.com/stonewall-school-report-what-does-suicide-rate-mean/

OldCrone beat me to it (just).

Even if it were true, that a group of people with a particular belief that runs contrary to objective reality get so distressed they often attempt suicide, well that leads me to be totally unsurprised. Treat their underlying issues don't pass laws saying everyoneust pretend the falsehood is true in the hope that will make them feel better. That whole line of argument for self id is twisted.

Plus the Tavistock reports one suicide in 10 years.

On twitter there is a FactChecker account which goes through BBCQT each week particularly checking some of the statistics quoted by panelists. It may be that they will verify it....

Also worth reminding them of the Samaritans' is a very chic combination! media guide for reporting on suicide, which include the risk of imitational behaviour and the over-simplification of individual circumstances

here is the source confirmed... twitter.com/FullFact/status/976964850420154370

they are looking into it further.... its a pretty good site and they tend to be really thorough.

It is borne out by a Stonewall study which can be downloaded here: www.stonewall.org.uk/school-report-2017

I know it doesn't fit your agenda to acknowledge that this is true but please remember you're talking about children who need help, and that however much you disagree with transgenderism we simply can't dismiss the issue of child suicide just because the children in question are trans.

SirVixofVixHall wrote - "Paris Lees stated as fact on BBC Question Time last night, that 45% of trans children in this country had actually attempted suicide."

There is a hierarchy of statistical survey quality. A very simplified list is:

(a) surveys of entire populations e.g. national census. (best quality)
(b) surveys of a large-as-possible subsection of an entire population of known size - typically at least 1,000 people in a national survey e.g. opinion polls of voters
(c) surveys of a small subsection of a population of known size or confidently accurate estimated size
(d) surveys of a small subsection of a population of unknown size (poorest quality - guesstimates)

We do not know how many transgender children there are in the UK, but we do know that it is some thousands, and we also know that the surveyed subsection is only a small subsection. Therefore, I think that the statistics for trans children's suicide attempt rate are type (d) in my list - only rough guesstimates. Therefore, the number of attempted suicides occurring within the population of trans children can only be a rough guesstimate at best.

I think progress could start by finding the accurate answer to the question: "how many transgender children are there in the UK? To improve the reliability of suicide attempt rate statistics, theory would suggest that one could then try to ask every transgender child in the UK, "have you every tried to kill yourself, because you are transgender"? but this is an ethically risky/dangerous question to ask children e.g. because of the risk of creating suicidal ideation, so practice to not survey may be wiser than implementing theory in this case.

just because the children in question are trans

There's no such thing as a trans child.

I think they went against a few of the points in the Samaritans guidelines for the media
www.samaritans.org/media-centre/media-guidelines-reporting-suicide/advice-journalists-suicide-reporting-dos-and-donts

3. Avoid over-simplification
Approximately 90 per cent of people who die by suicide have a diagnosed or undiagnosed mental health problem at the time of death.
Over-simplification of the causes or perceived ‘triggers’ for a suicide can be misleading and is unlikely to reflect accurately the complexity of suicide.

5. Aim for sensitive, nonsensationalising coverage
Be careful not to promote the idea that suicide achieves results.
For example, that, as a result of someone taking their own life, a bully was exposed or made to apologise.

I know it doesn't fit your agenda to acknowledge that this is true but please remember you're talking about children who need help

It doesn't help children to publicise this statistic.
It doesn't help children to put them in a gender box.
It doesn't help children to enable mental health issues.
We all care about children here - our children and others. So please don't misrepresent what we are or what we stand for.

please remember you're talking about children who need help

It is not helpful to troubled and confused children to confirm to them that they were born in the wrong body and need to be medicated and surgically altered. Sensitive treatment and therapy to help them to accept their bodies as they are would be of much greater help.

Beware of sub group analyses done post protocol. They are not reliable.

I think the BBC and Paris Lees in particular should be taken to task for allowing these misleading and dangerous stats to be used on BBCQT

Family members have attempted suicide, and in the previous generation, committed suicide. I have also lost a friend to suicide. I do not take it lightly. I am very concerned that this statistic, constantly used to manipulate people in supporting the trans agenda, is dangerous for young people. Teenagers hearing this may feel they are not "really" trans unless they attempt suicide, or it may be used to manipulate and threaten others (by mentally vulnerable teens).
And I agree with Old Crone etc, on what is true help and support for children and young adults conflicted about gender and their physicality, or sexuality.

Olennas- that link isn't working for me?
I suggest that anyone else concerned at how this issue was expressed last night also contact the Beeb.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-43227589

This BBC had an article in Health about the attempted suicides of a girl waiting for CAMHS caught my eye. I have looked at Young Minds and Mind and they both refer back to Samaritans on reporting of suicide statistics.

Neither pick up on attempted suicides as a thing, but 1 in 2 children diagnosed with a mental illness have suicidal ideation.

I think one of the dangers of TRAs throwing round 45% attempt suicide, is as one of the reports from Transgender Trend point out, Stonewall/Mermaids, themselves are helping to obscure the fact that the majority of respondents were probably girls, identifying as boys, who may have comorbid conditions and are more than likely to be impacted by social contagion.

Why aren't they being held to account? Is it only Transgender Trend who have questioned the data?

SirVix - does the link work this time: www.samaritans.org/media-centre/media-guidelines-reporting-suicide/advice-journalists-suicide-reporting-dos-and-donts?

OldCrone - I agree, but would expand what you said: "It is not helpful to troubled and confused children to confirm to them that they were born in the wrong body and need to be medicated and surgically altered and embed in the narrative that if they do not change their physical appearance they are very likely to try to commit suicide "

Yes, thank you.

Those stats are up there with the £350 million on the side of the bus.