Interesting school toilets story

[FlorenceLyons]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-43462823

Interesting on a number of levels, I think. The school had originally said a transgender child (a boy identifying as a girl) couldn't use the girls' toilets 'out of respect' - presumably for the girls.

An organisation called Transpire then got involved. Their spokesperson is quoted as saying "I find it quite amazing some schools are branding it respect when in fact it is segregation ... It's about giving people the opportunity to use the toilet they are comfortable with, not what the school is comfortable with."

The school capitulated, with the head saying "because of what the school stands for and the rights written into equality law, the school made the decision to allow transgender students to use a toilet that matches their identified gender".

This begs so many questions, doesn't it? Why is 'respect' being posited as the opposite of 'segregation'? Surely segregation by sex is partly about respecting the needs of people, particularly women, to single-sex spaces? Why does the comfort of one child trump the comfort of many children? And why is equality law being used to justify this, when we know it says no such thing?

The power that these men wield is frightening.

And it's only bloody women who are standing up to it.

It's really unsurprising that they have to resort to violence threats.

They really, really can't stand it. They have nothing. No rational argument, no justification.

NoSWSForYou

I would suspect there is an issue of homophobia involved in that scenario.

I do feel the school made the right decision and we're then bullied into reversing that decision by being fed lies about the equalities act and feeling threatened by a police officer.

Is anyone vaguely local?

threatened by a police officer.

A trans police officer. Who has a vested interest. There's a clear conflict.

The trouble is teachers and school try to be kind. Their mission is to support and when a child is presented to them as vulnerable and part of 'the most oppressed and marginalised group in society' then it is hard to see matters in any other way.

When the skilled gas lighting starts from well funded organisations that are actively promoted by the DfE then few schools feel confident in saying 'hold on, let's stand back and consider this in the needs of the whole community'. Because so often the rights of one child can unwittingly impact on the rights of another and it needs thought, discussions and planning.
In cases like this though, the school never gets to reflect and plan as they have these oppressive organisations threatening them with charges of transphobia if they get it wrong! And they know that they'll end up on the front pages as these organisations have zero interest in children, only as tools to promote their narrow ideology.

I bet the school didn't choose to share this with the press!!!!!

Just take the trans out, for a minute.

Male at secondary school wants to use female toilets.

School says um no. Male police officer tells them they have to.

This is the perfect example of how transactivists use children and schools to promote their own agenda with no thought or care for the school or the children in it.
It's an absolute disgrace and for a police officer to be fronting this calls into question their professional ethics.

Well I imagine a lot of the press are reading these boards, because this is the only place people can speak about them without risking their job/reputation.

I had no idea that Gina Denham was a police officer when I posted this! Bloody hell. No wonder the school felt they had no choice but to back down.

I heard the woman from Transpire talking on the radio yesterday about the school that told a trans student to use the disabled toilet. At the end of the interview the presenter asked her directly someth ing along the lines of 'what about the feelings/privacy of the female students who might not want someone born male in their toilets?', and she completely dodged the question and said something about how she would happily go to the school and give them advice and information.

Great point Datun

For that read 're-education'

Gina Denham was, at one point, given two warrant cards by Essex Police because they were sometimes presenting as a women, sometimes as a man when going through transition.

So they were presumably able to conduct intimate searches on men one day and women another day, depending on which card they were using...?

On a slight tangent I've just written to my police commissioner about how they are recording data for crimes, by gender or by sex.

I think with hate crime reports, a person's trans status IS recorded, but if they are the perp, it isn't, and I want to know therefore if a transwoman is recorded as male or female in my area, as I don't want the stats to invisible-ise this issue as more and more organisations (like this school) start implementing these gender ID policies as if gender ID was law. It only took five mins, you do it online.

Funny that once more, it's the boy who wants to be in the girls' toilets who gets the policy changed.

I've mentioned before (and had our school panned for it) that the transboys at my children's school use a staff loo -- because they wouldn't feel safe in the boys'. They had their views taken into account, in other words.

I suggest all the girls at that school identify as something more interesting than plain 'girl' immediately, and then maybe they'll be listened to.

Boy = shorthand for 'male child with male body' in the above, for clarity rather than deliberate misgendering. Their inner identity after all isn't the bit that random girls will see as they head into the toilet block.

transpiresouthend.org/meet-the-team

I wonder what the remit of the "British association of women in policing" is? To highlight aspiration women in policing to encourage those of female sex? Mind you the award she received from them was a special achievement award so this may have been created in addition to those presented to women, and so they are highlighting an aspirational trans woman in addition to not instead of (female) women.

www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/toilets.htm

2.c

School are breaking the law.

I have an idea.
It is very simple.
Tomorrow the HT call all the boys in.
They say From today Jack is now going to be called Jane
We are all going to respect Jane, and treat her with dignity
Jane will continue to use the boys toilets
All incidents of bullying will be dealt with by me

Boys learn that it is not appropriate to bully people.
Girls are allowed to have a penis free zone when they are going to the loo, or showering.

or am I too optimistic

Good call!

Exactly that, Smurf

Or the female students #ManFriday each and every Friday and use the male changing and toilet facilities until the head understands what he is doing....

That would be my solution also Smurf but it doesn't take into account that the whole movement behind these changes is not really about bullying it's about validation.

That is what stops TRAs agreeing to compromises that find middle ground.

But - I'd advocate having a 'safe place' for surfs hypothetical student because I can see them getting the holy crap beaten out of them by the other be-penised students regardless.

It wouldn't be the girls loos though

Phew - I thought you were all going to say I'm mad.
For #Man Friday I'm thinking of going in the men's toilets and laughing
now that would be dangerous

The trouble is the Head has just been told by a police officer that he was doing it wrong . It's a brave Head who will tell a supposed 'expert' in the law that they're wrong.