What do you say when people say that Canada, Denmark, Ireland, Argentina and Malta all have much easier ways of getting a GRC and there appears to be no issue?

[yetanothertranswoman]

It's an argument I see a lot. Look at these countries - in Canada, you need a doctor's letter and that's it.

Ireland - has self ID without a doctor.

People who say look at these countries, there's been no issue - so what's wrong with self ID in the UK.

How can that argument be countered?

I don't know about many of the countries but in Ireland prisons and convents are still segregated by sex not gender.

I'd also point out that in the US target have had issues in their changing rooms and both the us and Canada have had issues in prisons and women's shelters.

I'm sure more knowledgeable posters will be along.

My first response is 'how do you know if there are no issues, they would be reported as crimes committed by a woman if they are reported at all.'

There has been an increase in the UK of sex crimes by women, including 6 rapes last year. Rape is 'when one person penetrates another with their penis without the consent of the person being penetrated.'

Canada are apparently having problems getting journalists to report on stories due to fear of being outed as a bigot

The problems in Target in the US have been widely reported however.

Yes: how would you know? Women already don't report the vast majority of sexual harassment and assault that they experience. They are even less likely to report if reporting might be treated as a bigoted hate crime. They're much more likely to just quietly stop using their own facilities.

on a thread recently someone said that in Canada there have been instances of men self ID in order to access women's spaces, eg changing rooms etc and that there have been incidents.

Those countries don't have a buggered up Equality Act that created a whole lot of confusion around the protected characteristics of sex by extending a conflicting protection to gender identity.

Also worth looking at whether the word got out here earlier that the proposal was coming, and whether women in the UK have organised, publicised and fought harder. I have heard that women from at least one country with self ID regret they didn't stand up to it more fiercely.

And yes, there have been issues. There will be more issues. Bear in mind that there will have been more that don't get reported into the media and that there is a heavy agenda and heavy weighting and control of the media to suppress or at the very least spin publicity of the times when self ID openly proves its a sex offenders wet dream.

Share this - report on increased issues in Target bathrooms since they changed policy to allowing men to ID into women’s toilets

womanmeanssomething.com/1034-2/

Do they have self-ID in the US where they had all that trouble in Target then? Surely not?

I'm in Canada. There are issues; no one talks about them for fear of sacking, closure of services and even arrest.

Do they have self-ID in the US where they had all that trouble in Target then? Surely not

The US doesn't have self ID.

I did see this - which seems familiar

www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/02/17/transgender-rule-washington-state-man-undresses-locker-room/80501904/?siteID=je6NUbpObpQ-6Pd.dP9uzQTiVJogkwis8A

globalnews.ca/news/3300518/concerns-over-transgender-client-at-okanagan-shelter/

And Google Vancouver Rape Crisis for their story.

Christopher Hambrook identified as Jessica to enter women's shelters in Toronto and commit sexual assaults

Toronto university switched bathrooms to gender-neutral and then switched them back again due to cases of voyeurism

And Google Vancouver Rape Crisis for their story

But that's got nothing to do with self ID - it is someone who is transitioning?

Well here's an example of the hoops that women working in a Canadian university had to go through when a 40 year old man / student self ID as an infant and demanded that staff treated accordingly. He allegedly demanded to be treated by female staff and wanted his soiled nappies changed.
www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-island-university-fetish-student-professor-fired-1.4400306

The fact that he was apparently able to continue with his sick behaviour for 2 years suggests that the rights of some Canadian women to safety and dignity are placed as a very poor second to the demands of a man to self ID in this way.

See below.

Nobody knew about the GRA in Ireland- there was no public discussion of it at all, and now TRAs are lobbying to have it extended to underage teenagers. TRAs and their handmaidens have hijacked mainstream feminism, even the Repeal the Eighth movement, causing deep divisions which we really don't need. More shit will be happening down the road, I guarantee.

I'd also say that the trans population in Ireland is miniscule, there aren't very many trans people speaking out or very well known to the general population and there's not a lot of media attention on the issue, in the same way there is in the UK.

In Ireland the legislation was brought in almost without anyone noticing or commenting, whereas there has been much greater debate and time for such debate, it would seem, in the UK.

Shit. How do you talk about abortion from a non-biological point of view?

And we mustn't forget Ibi in Denmark

No-one can say this didn't cause a problem - and note he (I just can't call him 'she' - is he really being serious?) was taken to separate areas each time even though theoretically he should have been able to use the female changing rooms. And he complained about that.

I suspect in these countries there are women absenting themselves without much note and staff quietly trying to work compromises with little being said outright.

No matter how many times it happens the transgender advocates claim that it never happens. So google this never happens and you will see a list of all the times it has happened or go to transcrimeuk. The information is out there but fr some reason those who advocate transitioning continue to claim it never happens.

Oh wow "marilla", I didn't know that had come out about that Irish feminists letter. I thought something didn't seem right about it at the time.

There has been some back-tracking from the Univeristy of Tonronto about gender neutral bathrooms, I seem to recall, after a spate of assaults / voyeuring

The Equality Act is problematic. It redefined "transsexual person" from someone who had a medical diagnosis, to anyone who had undergone, was undergoing, or planned to undergo some form of social transition - without defining objective criteria. The authors must have realised they were creating scope for abuses so they introduced the sex-exemptions (much to the displeasure of GRC transsexuals who had not previously been subject to any such restrictions). However those exemptions are not being used as far as I can tell. Instead women's rights to organise and associate as a biological sex are underpinned by informal rules in society. Women feel they can challenge men who they feel should not be there. Self-ID shifts the burden of proof massively.

No other country has an Equality Act like ours so comparisons are invalid.

Ireland and Malta, those meccas of women's rights.