Raising my head above the parapet.....

[LittlePearl]

I'm a bit late to the party, really - only been thinking the trans issue through for the last 12 months or so. Encouragingly, it was my 23 year old son who first alerted me to Germaine Greer's no platforming a while back, and that got me thinking and reading.

But having now followed many, many threads in FC, and read linked articles, videos etc I feel ready to nail my colours to the mast when the subject is raised at work or in company.

I'm pretty sure I've read that the vast majority of transwomen have not undergone surgery, (and for me this is one of the most compelling and troubling aspects of the debate - men who insist on being called women but have no compunction about keeping their male tackle where it's always been) but I don't have the statistics to fall back on, or the studies to point people to - and my views WILL be challenged, especially in my place of work.

Can anyone help me be well-prepared? Where can I go for information that will support my case - especially about surgery rates for TIMs?

TIA

Your views will be challenged in your place of work.

Basically, the ideology now is that transwomen are women.

There are many transwomen who are against this. They see that they cannot ever be women, and some go as far as to suggest that transwomen are a subset of males.

However, the trans activists TRAs have managed to get most people to believe the trans women are women trope.

Personally, I wouldn't bring it up at work. (I'm not alone in thinking this)

LittlePearl I'm also a newcomer to this stuff but it took me very little to peaktrans,
I thought this was a good thread with lots of links:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3175252-A-trans-resource-thread

This is the link for surgery rates
uk.businessinsider.com/r-us-gender-confirmation-surgery-up-19-percent-in-2016-doctors-say-2017-5?r=US&IR=T

I tend to use the written submission that GIRES presented to Maria Miller's consultation in 2015:
data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/women-and-equalities-committee/transgender-equality/written/19292.pdf

Only 5% have sought medical help ie. hormones and/or surgery. Dutch research suggests that eventually 20% will seek medical help. So, between 80-95% of men who identify as women still have their penis.

This is referenced in the SAGES leaflet, which has lots of good information, and I'm sure you've already come across it:
sages.org.uk/

I should also have mentioned that GIRES is a pro-trans organisation.

All power to you OP but be cautious in your workplace and be ready to lose friends and colleagues over this.

I suspect the surgery is shit though, in terms of outcome. I can understand a TIM thinking, ''better the devil you know'.

I wish I knew the take-up rate for hormones.

Actually the surgery does bring relief to many who have it. However, they do retain their prostate, for urinary purposes, though the reduction of the ureter does bring about problems for a male bladder post operative.

A neo vagina is never really assessed years later as it's assumed that the patient will carry on with the care post operation. Of course the depth of the neo vagina is statistically 4-5 cm whereas the vagina of a female post pubertal adult, without neonatal issues, is twice that.

Thanks everyone, for your replies.

I'll be very careful about work situations, but I'm not willing to sit dumbly by when the ideology is being spouted mindlessly by people who don't grasp the implications, or, like me a couple of years ago, don't know the full story. I've never been very good at biting my tongue!

I would probably keep it very low key rather than trying to give figures and statistics. Just say something like, 'Hmm, I wonder how it will work if men with a male physique can identify as female to compete against women with a female physique in sports ' and just give it time for people to process.

Hi @LittlePearl

The posts above are way more useful for actual links, but I just wanted to share that we are working on a similar time frame, and in the past six months I have gone from just chatting to my parents, husband and best friend, to my book group and to lots of other parents at school. (Caveat - self employed as a tutor and only part time so work environment not appropriate!)

I have not lost any friends (thank goodness) though a lot have asked searching questions and I have thanked Mumsnet for the answers. I am really glad I have had these difficult conversations as now I know there are a lot more people, women and men, who are alarmed, concerned and interested. I have sent them links, have been calm and non-threatening (it helps that they see me a v left on everything else and v wishy-washy loving liberal on everything else!) - we have had great conversations and email exchanges too.

So while I cannot comment on the workplace stuff, I can certainly say that opening up to friends about my worries has been wholly positive. Be brace! Mumsnet has your back (and pretty much all the answers!)

Damn autocorrect - for brace please read brace!

Damn autocorrect - for brace please read brace!

😆

Thanks Mama!

Despite finding it hard to hold my tongue (if I feel strongly about something) I'm not an argumentative person, and don't seek conflict. At work and socially I think I'm seen as fairly measured, and I have a hunch that people might be surprised by how strongly I feel about this. But what I want is for people to engage with it critically, so I'll try to be calm, and not get their backs up!

Ask questions. Will anybody be able to Id? What if someone wanted to perve on girls, could they just pretend to be trans?