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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Violent pornography - Nikki Heart and Leigh Ravens

36 replies

QuentinSummers · 14/03/2018 17:18

This is about two porn actresses who were abused badly while filming porn.
The abuse seems to have been motivated by racism and misogyny.
I'm absolutely sickened that the "sex positive" movement means stuff like this happens and is meant to be empowering.
The women are so brave to speak out
www.feministcurrent.com/2018/03/13/conversation-abuse-porn-needs-extend-beyond-harm-set/

OP posts:
SnibbleAgain · 14/03/2018 17:25

Bloody hell.

SnibbleAgain · 14/03/2018 17:25

But I mean everyone knows this, don't they? Even the ones who pretend they don't.

Xenophile · 14/03/2018 17:32

Yes Snibble, everyone knows this.

What I'm interested in is what percentage of the dick tingles the men get from watching porn is caused by knowing the women are being abused and harmed by it?

Original poster
QuentinSummers · 14/03/2018 17:35

I have to admit I didn't realise fully that men would want to watch women covered in vomit, snot and tears after being raped fucked. It is just disgusting. I don't understand how it's not illegal.

OP posts:
SnibbleAgain · 14/03/2018 17:37

I think a lot - I think that there's desensitisation to types of imagery - I think that they pretend that it's "acting" but they know really that a lot of it is real.

On the desensitisation thing - I read a lot of fanfic and have experienced it myself! Not on this same thing I'm not seeking stories where women are raped and tortured, but still, it definitely is a thing that I have seen for myself.

Of course they start watching it v young now as well, and it's all being "normalised" - porn used to be a furtive secret thing, now it's all sex positive feminism and no kink shaming and so on, almost encouraging people to enjoy things that maybe if they hadn't been exposed in the same way they wouldn't.

Misogyny and racism are rife obviously and these are not positive values to encourage in young people.

SnibbleAgain · 14/03/2018 17:40

When I was young the boys got a porn film S&M with a woman having nails hammered into her breasts (?) I think it was (didn't watch it) they all watched it and found it funny.

Ditto more recently that 2 cups thing.

Many enjoy watching women being degraded, even if they dont' have a wank they find it "funny".

Depressing.

SnibbleAgain · 14/03/2018 17:40

1 cup Grin

It was a few years ago now!

One of DH friends was showign it to his mates in the pub.

KittyPerry77 · 14/03/2018 18:26

Totally clueless about any activism around porn - is there any petition or campaign going to try to ban hardcore/violent porn in the UK? Surely most people would support it.

SnibbleAgain · 15/03/2018 10:50

I don't think most people would support it -

Many don't know how bad it is
The ones who use it like it
It would be shouted down as a threat to "free speech" by men

Some porn is illegal - or used to be

When children are involved (images of child sexual abuse)
When death is involved
When actual crime is committed eg I don't think you're allowed to show an actual rape

although most men watching this will tell themselves they're acting, if it even bothers them at all. Example of this was when one of the main internet sites announced they were taking down films with unconcious women and expected loads of kudos (and got it!!!). Some women may have been pretending but (having seen the front page with all the vid stills for adverts) most are women in what looks like normal homes out cold on the sofa. People can upload videos themselves, it's not all "proper" films so... This shows just how low the bar is in the industry that they wanted kudos and got kudos for removing what were pretty obviously homemade rape videos.

On the internet of course it's a free for all I'm not sure it's possible to ban anything.

UK was makign moved to make porn here minimum 18 and you have to prove it / somehow so not sure how or if that is going to happen.

The wider point about so many men enjoying seeing women abused, this is about misogyny and not seeing women as people really. Lots of men only seem really capable of caring about "their" women and the rest are either irrelevant, annoying, eye candy or for fucking.

SnibbleAgain · 15/03/2018 10:52

The law around obscene publications used to be something about likely to cause (?) some old fashioned word in the viewer. Something about depravity maybe? Anyway it was quite loose, a lot of our laws are like that to give leeway for the police to prosecute if it's something no-one had thought to put on the list etc.

NotUmbongoUnchained · 15/03/2018 10:55

I don’t think it should be banned per se, but there should definitely really strict regulations. I don’t think people should be able to upload their own stuff and I don’t think it should be free.

SnibbleAgain · 15/03/2018 10:57

What don't you think should be banned? In the context of the OP.

I am a bit sad for genuine amanteurs - would they be allowed to share stuff privately or would you ban that?

NotUmbongoUnchained · 15/03/2018 11:01

Yeahshare it privately, but I think being able to upload to a huge platform that is being viewed for free by teenagers, where to content isn’t always verified is a problem.

Violent porn is a turn on for a lot of people, both male and female so I don’t think it should be banned. But it should be really strictly regulated and both parties should absolutely be consenting and enjoying it.

SnibbleAgain · 15/03/2018 11:08

Interestingly I'd probably rather see genuine amateurs producing porn than the big companies. I mean yes obviosuly you can't tell what is really amateur and what isn't but in principle, if people aren't being paid (or otherwise coerced) then it reduces concerns about consent, you're going to get a much wider range of people and body types, and you're going to get men and women more equal (as they are doing it together), and you're going to get some who want to show "making lurrrve" rather than maximising how many penises you can fit in one woman's body at a time, and you're going to see the woman actually enjoying herself.

I'm not sure I understadn the logic in getting rid of this particular sector.

"Violent porn is a turn on for a lot of people, both male and female so I don’t think it should be banned."

This is the most shit argument I've ever seen for not banning something. Did you even read the OP?

SnibbleAgain · 15/03/2018 11:11

Interesting isn't it, how many laws an erection can get you round.

Strangle a man to death on the street and it's murder.
Strangle a woman to death in the home, tell police it was a "sex game gone wrong" and oh dear poor fella (not talking about the recent case but others)
Punch a man in the face on the street, that's illegal
Want to punch a man for entertainment - that's boxing and has many rules and safety regs
Want to punch a woman in the face? Take her clothes off, take your clothes off, say it's a porn film and go to town. It's some people's "kink" right, and we'll have no kink shaming here.

SnibbleAgain · 15/03/2018 11:14

"Violent porn is a turn on for a lot of people, both male and female so I don’t think it should be banned."

"Child porn is a turn on for a lot of people, both male and female so I don’t think it should be banned."

"Animal porn is a turn on for a lot of people, both male and female so I don’t think it should be banned."

"Rape porn is a turn on for a lot of people, both male and female so I don’t think it should be banned."

How does violence become not illegal when it's related to sex? It's something I've always found baffling.

The racism as well would be deemed hate speech in other circs, or at least wildly socially unacceptable. Say it to a woman though while degrading her and it "turns a lot of poeple on" so it's AOK.

Nutso reasoning.

SnibbleAgain · 15/03/2018 11:17

And let's be honest despite what porn hubs "stats" say, we all know who is consuming most of this stuff.

In the same way that strip clubs around the world aren't full of women paying for lapdances, brothels in the world aren't full of women taking advatange of fixed rates, and courts of the world aren't full of women being done for rape.

How many strories have you read like the OP link where the roles were reversed, and men in porn are routnely beign trapped on sets surrounded by women who then proceed to sexually abuse them? Hmmm? This is something that's common, is it?

Original poster
QuentinSummers · 15/03/2018 11:27

When actual crime is committed eg I don't think you're allowed to show an actual rape

That's kind of the point about this story though. Heart was not consenting to what happened to her so that's rape. The guy who's just belted and raped her getting her to record a statement saying she enjoyed it doesn't make it not rape.
But noones going to be prosecuted over it because it's her job so defence that the actor believed she consented would be easy.

It's a shit state of affairs.

I don't actually think it's relevant if the actors enjoy it anyway. That kind of thing promotes extreme violence against women as ok. It should be banned.

OP posts:
NotUmbongoUnchained · 15/03/2018 11:36

*Violent porn is a turn on for a lot of people, both male and female so I don’t think it should be banned."

"Child porn is a turn on for a lot of people, both male and female so I don’t think it should be banned."

"Animal porn is a turn on for a lot of people, both male and female so I don’t think it should be banned."

"Rape porn is a turn on for a lot of people, both male and female so I don’t think it should be banned."*

Children, animals and people who are raped can’t consent. It’s not even in the same argument.

I have been raped. I also enjoy very rough, violent sex.

Consent is the big issue. If both people consent there is no problem.

TimbuktuTimbuktu · 15/03/2018 13:41

I used to watch some violent porn and enjoy it. I then learnt more about the industry and the wider impact on women in society and made the ethical decision that I couldn't do that anymore. My right to get off doesn't trump other women's right not to be abused!

SnibbleAgain · 15/03/2018 14:31

?

Have you read the article in the OP?

Your defence of this is mind boggling.

And consent is not the be all and end all. There have been prosecutions where people have consented to permanent mutilation, for instance, I remember a case in Germany.

People can be coerced into "consenting" to things they don't want - see the recent scandals - with the compensation board saying that victims "consented" even when men were in prison for raping them, and police seeing trafficked women and children as consenting even initiating their own abuse.

Have you read the OP? Those women consented. This is OK to you? Because you like to watch that sort of thing?

I have a massive problem with acts that are illegal becoming legal my magic if someone says it gives them a hard on.

SnibbleAgain · 15/03/2018 14:33

We have an issue where violent abuse, degradation of a misogynistic / racist nature is deemed all fun and games because it makes someone watching it feel sexy.

Just because some poeple want something doesn't mean they have to have it.

But, capitalism, racism, sexism, so.

SnibbleAgain · 15/03/2018 14:34

I have massive problems with consent being a magic get-out.

Due to various factors, consent can be VERY easy to coerce.

This is one reason older men go for teenage girls so much.

NotUmbongoUnchained · 15/03/2018 17:59

Well coercion isn’t consent is it....