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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

House of Commons event - anyone else going?

356 replies

grandplans · 13/03/2018 22:15

If so, see you there!

Do you think it'll be mobbed by TRAs as the venue's been announced in advance or not because of the security at the HOC?

OP posts:
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qumquat · 15/03/2018 07:02

I had to arrive late and leave early and didnt get to speak to anyone which was a shame. I was however sat next to Posie Parker on the floor and can report that her shoes were every bit as amazing as her shirt.

Is 'Kate' a mnetter?

spillikins · 15/03/2018 07:40

Been reading the twitter and mumsnet catch up, and today, I feel almost....optimistic (?) for the future. More and more people willing to say that no, trans women are not women.

Datun · 15/03/2018 07:54

SophoclesTheFox

I didn't know there was a chap in a dress there. I wonder who it was.

You must have been sitting right behind me. I was in the front row, across the aisle from Linda (to her left).

qumquat

Yes, Kate's a mumsnetter!

Cwenthryth · 15/03/2018 08:00

Spillikins there was definitely a very optimistic vibe in the room, and defiantly(!) in the pub afterwards.

Qumquat I was speaking to Kate sat at the back too (hi! And thanks for being friendly when I was wide eyed and alone!) she’s definitely a MNer.

When I asked people what had bought this issue to their attention, Mumsnet was top of the list for most people. MN really has been a force for good in allowing this conversation to happen here, bringing the concerns to a wider audience.

misscockerspaniel · 15/03/2018 08:04

Datun Do you know who the other MP who attended is?

Cwenthryth · 15/03/2018 08:08

Julia’s talk about being complicit in the language used is really hitting home today.

Even the term ‘gender reassignment’, which is the protected characteristic - to be ‘gender reassigned’ you have to have had a gender in the first place. Gender has to be a Thing for that phrase to make any sense. Those of us who reject gender as a social constraint construct aren’t recognised by that terminology.

Julia was looking at dictionary definitions of transgender - I’d be interested to find out how the definition of gender has changed over time.

SophoclesTheFox · 15/03/2018 08:13

i was in the black houndstooth dress and red blazer Smile

Yes, i was a bit disappointed and conflicted about a TIM being there where men had been asked to make way at the event for women to be able to attend. However, i also saw Miranda there, and was glad to see him, so am being inconsistent!

Very true about the language. it’s hard. I don’t want to be mean, but then that’s what makes it work, relying on people to be kind...

Cwenthryth · 15/03/2018 08:22

Well, in the end we fitted in the room, albeit with people sat on the floor and standing at the back. There were other men present too, and no one was disruptive or disrespectful.

Fekko · 15/03/2018 08:24

Was the press there too?

Tralalee · 15/03/2018 08:24

That pink news article is damning

For some reason this isn't translating well to the general public.

Sadly I think you are going to have to accept that it will become law and wait for the (absolutely inevitable) backlash

boatyardblues · 15/03/2018 08:34

Will there be transcripts of last night?

AnotherTerfyNameChange · 15/03/2018 08:39

The Pink News article is ridiculous! Theyve quoted the right words said by the speakers, removed the context and put their own spin on them. The only people who'll believe it was a hateful meeting is Pink news readers. The comments attributed to Maria Miller were not necessarily made in relation to this event - again, they've got sound bites and inserting them where it suits their narrative.

If there was an actually Pink News person there, them they were remarkably restrained in not shouting out when the speakers were "literally killing them" 😀😀

OvaHere · 15/03/2018 08:39

Pink News isn't really the general public though. They are a LGBT publication than seems to have abandoned the LGB in favour of T.

Check out this TMZ link, which has a huge reach. The story itself is not really anything particularly outrageous as far as trans stories go but it has nearly 2000 comments and most of them are stating men are not women (and they men are not being kind about it).

www.tmz.com/2018/03/14/tinder-sued-transgender-woman-discrimination/

Cwenthryth · 15/03/2018 08:47

It shows a lack of understanding, at best. If a pornified, hypersexualised, full body silicone woman-suit isn’t made for a man to inhabit a woman’s body (or a parody thereof) - ie, parasitise women - then what the hell else is it for.

Datun · 15/03/2018 08:55

That Penis News story is definitely spinning the event.

They have reported what was said, yes.

The part about parasites was accompanied by a slide of a man in a female bodysuit and mask. He was literally inhabiting a female shape, for kicks.

It was part of a section where she spoke about autogynephilia. She used other slides to demonstrate.

Latex vulvas, advertising 'camel toes', being bought by men to wear, etc.

It's high time that this aspect is highlighted.

misscockerspaniel

No, sorry I don't. It was Venice who told me.

newtlover · 15/03/2018 09:50

I've just read the Pink News article
I'd be very interested to hear examples of the apalling prejudice and discrimination transgender people face (according to SNP spokeswoman)
Are they refused housing? employment? the vote?
As far as I can see they are equal under the law.

HerFemaleness · 15/03/2018 09:52

Oh god, why did I google came toe underwear? What has been seen cannot be unseen.

athingthateveryoneneeds · 15/03/2018 09:54

apalling prejudice and discrimination transgender people face

Interested in examples of this as well.

HerFemaleness · 15/03/2018 09:58

As far as I can see they are equal under the law.

Women are also equal under the law @newtlover

I do believe that trans people, particularly TIMs suffer a unique kind of discrimination. Our society doesn't accept the right of men to present themselves in anything other than a stereotypically masculine fashion. Men police other men quite violently.

terfsRus · 15/03/2018 10:00

I watched a Jack Monroe interview on C4 where they said transgender people can't be denied access to health services. But are they denied it? If they ID as NB they will still have male or female anatomy and that is offered on the NHS. Or did they mean transexuals who might have special health care needs if post op? I don't understand what rights they still don't have?

HerFemaleness · 15/03/2018 10:07

Do you mean can be denied access to health service @terfsRus?

Somethingweird · 15/03/2018 10:07

Her femaleness - I agree. There is hideous and unacceptable bullying and discrimination against people who don't conform to sex stereotypes. That is what needs to be changed. Not making us believe biological impossibilities.

terfsRus · 15/03/2018 10:11

@HerFemaleness
She was debating Julia Long and - can't remember the exact words - her argument for self-ID was that it might stop trans people from getting the services they need, more importantly health services.

Mumsnut · 15/03/2018 10:22

www2.hm.com/en_gb/productpage.0457412035.html