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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jacob Tobia: “The Women's Movement Doesn't Always Include Me — But It Should“

69 replies

WadeWalker · 13/03/2018 16:49

Just wondered if anyone else had seen this?

www.them.us/story/sissy-diaries-women-and-femmes

OP posts:
Datun · 14/03/2018 07:53

People are often so scared of their desire for me that they avert their eyes. They can’t so much as look at me without fearing that their “deviant” desire for me will be revealed to the world.

One of the characteristics of autogynephilia is the delusion of appearance.

You see a six-foot navvy in a teenager's skirt, they see a sexy little minx.

Because the sexual motivation is absolutely compelling.

I suspect it comes from the same place as unsolicited dick pics. Men who send those truly think you will faint with helpless desire.

Instead of either pissing yourself laughing, or feeling threatened.

Because they are pantingly hot over the way they look, they think that's everyone else's reaction, too.

The ridiculous photos of them trying to look alluring, and utterly believing it, shows it up.

Does anyone know about the pathology of AGP? Is it linked to NPD? Genuinely interested.

Narcissism and narcissistic rage is prevalent.

Mouthtrousersafrocknowandthen

It would be useful if you could get AGP into the interview.

I've always felt that if the general public were more aware, it would be an instant deal breaker.

And people know about cross dressers. They have been prevalent in society. The cliched middle-aged banker who tries on his wife's undies when she pops to the shops.

They just haven't made the connection with transwomen.

Here is the thread from women married to AGP individuals.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3101834-trans-widows-escape-committee

Datun · 14/03/2018 08:17

The other side of this is the threats of violence.

I've just seen an exchange, quite brutal.

Where the man concerned is coming up with creative ways to kill terfs, but talking to people about it, addressing his threats to actual women, instead of just posting randomly.

I honestly don't believe that there are this many violent psychopaths out there. I think it's far more likely to be some twat in his mum's basement.

Their bitterness and anger is real, though.

But the women reading it have to make a mental effort to not take it seriously.

Because threats of violence towards women are always underpinned with the reality.

The knowledge that it is men who kill, not women leaves no room for complacency.

I see this as another disconnect between men and women. Men simply don't realise how women have to take these things seriously.

Which is why when you point it out, they tend to dismiss it as nutters.

As though they are an alien group, not walking amongst us.

Women's life experience tells them otherwise. That some men can turn on a dime. And you can't tell which ones. And that it's not unusual.

The woman who said that men's greatest fear is that women will laugh at them and women's greatest fear is that men will kill them?

The postscript to that is that if you act on men's greatest fear, they will often then act on yours.

The violent threats that transactivists make don't seem to be taken seriously by the social media platforms they use, or law-enforcement.

Another reason for female representation across the board to be equal to that of men.

m.facebook.com/groups/1722756661380462/?ref=group_header&view=group

picklemepopcorn · 14/03/2018 08:22

The bit that stood out for me was "We [trans] are so hot, so sexy, so beautiful. We are skilled, compassionate, ferocious lovers. We’ve already worked through our issues and our personal courage makes for some incredible intimacy. "

Great, go for it. You are clearly tailor made for relationships with other trans women.

picklemepopcorn · 14/03/2018 08:50

Actually, this bit is right: "we stop saying “women” and start saying “women and femmes,” I think we might be able to ensure that our message is no longer lost in translation"

I am happy for him to be as femme as he likes. He is not a woman.

KatherinaMinola · 14/03/2018 09:29

I suspect it comes from the same place as unsolicited dick pics. Men who send those truly think you will faint with helpless desire.

I agree with the first sentence and think that's a very interesting analogy.

I'm not sure about the second sentence. Perhaps some men think dick pics turn women on, but I think a lot of men get off on the frisson of threat/transgression in sending them, and get off on making women uncomfortable.

I wonder how lesbians feel about the use of femmes in this context, pickle.

picklemepopcorn · 14/03/2018 09:56

Ah, so 'women and femmes' suggests femme lesbians are not women? But they are women women.
Women would be all women regardless of presentation, femmes would effeminate males. I'm getting confused now.

Riverside2 · 14/03/2018 10:32

I don't know what any of these terms means and more importantly, I don't care anymore.

JessicaEccles · 14/03/2018 13:23

People are often so scared of their desire for me that they avert their eyes. They can’t so much as look at me without fearing that their “deviant” desire for me will be revealed to the world.

Jacob, mate - I have EXACTLY the same problem Grin Grin Grin

CapnHaddock · 14/03/2018 13:33

The narcissism is overwhelming. I follow Paris Lees on twitter and it's just endless shots of him dolled up to the nines, pouting at the camera. This is someone who is supposed to be a political activist. Can you imagine any woman behaving in the same way and expecting to be taken seriously? They'd be crucified

Riverside2 · 14/03/2018 14:47

OMD I hadn't read that thing about the desire in their eyes

surely some of these must just be trolling the world?!

Datun · 14/03/2018 15:10

The narcissism is overwhelming. I follow Paris Lees on twitter and it's just endless shots of him dolled up to the nines, pouting at the camera. This is someone who is supposed to be a political activist. Can you imagine any woman behaving in the same way and expecting to be taken seriously? They'd be crucified

This is the other thing. The absolutely raging double standards.

I've been meaning to collate all the times where a TIM does something 'female' for which a woman would get annihilated.

It's imperative to keep these two things separate.

To keep the sexist, pornified things that some TIMs do, well away from women and their rights.

And I know it's not TIMs obviously.

Which is also a reason to make a relentless and effective distinction between AGP and gender dysphoria.

Datun · 14/03/2018 17:00

*all TIMs

MilkGoatee · 14/03/2018 17:14

From the Playboy (yeah, I know) article:
People are often so scared of their desire for me that they avert their eyes. They can’t so much as look at me without fearing that their “deviant” desire for me will be revealed to the world.

As people in Scotland would say: "Aye, right".

MilkGoatee · 14/03/2018 17:16

Sorry, that was me-three, at a minimum @LaContessa and @Escalated.

MealyPotatoes · 14/03/2018 20:58

Self indulgent twaddle.

AngryAttackKittens · 14/03/2018 23:49

Agreed with what Datun said about the delusions of sexiness. There's something fundamentally off about the way men with AGP see themselves, and a lot of their rage is caused by the disconnect between what they think other people ought to be seeing and what we actually see. Some of the more unhinged ones seem to believe that we do see what they think we should and are lying about it to hurt them, others think that most people see what they want us to and it's just a handful of bigots who see a bricklayer in his daughter's too-small clubbing outfit. In either case they think we SHOULD see sexy little minxes, and if we don't then we're the problem.

Once you realize this the relentless focus on sex and relationships and the anger about most people just not being interested sexually speaking from TRAs all makes sense. If the general public had the same lightbulb moment the whole self-ID issue could be resolved by the end of the month.

thebewilderness · 15/03/2018 00:02

Ah, so 'women and femmes' suggests femme lesbians are not women? But they are women women.
We are well into bear territory now.
Ursus Arctos bear, means bear bear bear.

pinkcandy84 · 15/03/2018 01:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CapnHaddock · 15/03/2018 13:41

This thread is quite the eye-opener about the whole fetishisation behind AGPs: twitter.com/FaithNaff/status/973183761453023232

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