If you honestly don't think man/ woman are defined by genitals can I ask if you "assigned" a gender to your child? Or would you?

[MIngerDynasty]

Because if you asssigned your vagina owning child the title "girl" or "daughter" I'm going to call bullshit on the whole thing. That or abuse.

Choosing to have your child labelled as "female" with the risks of sexual abuse, the risks of poverty, the risks of being ignored.... well why would you? You'd give your child a unisex name at least and call them a boy.

I’m so confused!

A lot of posters think genitals are unrelated to your biological sex/gender (the two get conflated).

So people can get "missasigned" the day they are born.
It would make sense if you believed that to either not assign a sex to your child or to at least assign them boy if you're going to choose.

my DD is female, a girl, actually a young woman now because that is what she was born as. It never crossed my mind to refer to her as anything else. All this gender business is madness.

We are discriminated against because of our sex not gender.

@MIngerDynasty to be consistent, people who believe in gender identity being paramount and sex being irrelevant should bring their children up as gender neutral. The child can then inform the parents as to their gender identity when they are able to articulate it. The belief in gender identity requires you to wait for the person to tell you their identity rather than assume it. So you'd have to go for a gender neutral name, and fully gender neutral parenting until the child informs you of their gender identity.

You won't get any answers from those who claim to believe this because:
A. They don't really believe it. No one does. And B. There isn't a sensible answer to this question (which I believe may have been your point)

I get where you are coming from. If my biology doesn't define me as female then what am I? What do I use to make the decision of what gender to pick?

I once saw one person on Twitter argue that saying 'it's a boy' or 'it's a girl' is somehow coercive or abusive and doctors and parents should wait until the child is old enough to tell you their gender.

This only works if you believe that 'it's a boy' is a statement about your child's personality, how he should be allowed to dress and what he should be allowed to play with. Old-fashioned social conservatism, in other words - with the twist that children should be allowed to choose which of the two restrictive boxes they'd prefer.

If you think it just means 'he has a penis and is biologically male' and tells you nothing about his personality or preferences? Congratulations. You're a sensible person. And also a TERF, presumably.

In many ways I wish I had been socialised as a boy - my life would be very different and the abuse I suffered may never have happened.

But it never occurred to my parents and I doubt it occurs to any parent to assign an opposite gender to their child. It's a ridiculous thought.

Some parents may go gender neutral - but even then, the whole world is against them.

It wouldn 't even be necessary to think about gender without sexual stereotypes... That's clearly where we should be starting.

The midwives looked at my children’s genitals and declared which sex they were based on that.

As a believer in biology, I tend to go with that.

I have two girls, and if society lets them be, they will grow into adult women, who may or may not gestate their own children, who may be brought into the world through their vagina, or through an incision and may or may not feed those children with their breasts, they will have smear tests to prevent cancers that are specific only to the female sex. They have different biology to my son, who has a penis and testicles and one day may provide genetic material from those testicles to become a father. he will have hair sprouting from his face and possibly his chest, as he ages he will need prostrate exams, to prevent cancer that is specific to the male sex.

People have the right to call themselves whichever gender they like, but you cannot change your biology.

You won't get any answers from those who claim to believe this because: A. They don't really believe it. No one does. And B. There isn't a sensible answer to this question (which I believe may have been your point)

That is my pont basically. I have yet to see a person who claims genitals aren't related to sex say "my sister (who identifies as such) has just had a bouncy baby of undermined gender."

Not once. They also always seem to have a very good idea of what pronouns to use when speaking about other adults or children. I don't get it. Why would they risk commiting "literal violence" against a baby by labelling them?

Your genitals define your gender. You are defined male or female at birth based upon the genitals you present with.
Your genitals determine whether your body will be governed by the oestrogen in its ovaries, or the testosterone in its testicles. So whether you like it or not, you are male or female by your genitals.

If, God forbid, DS were in an accident in which he lost his penis, he wouldn't 'be a girl now' .
He'd be a boy without a penis.

That is the argument I use when any MRA Trans activist insists "Trans women are women" and demand access to female services and facilities.

Your genitals define your gender. You are defined male or female at birth based upon the genitals you present with.

That defines your sex, though. Whether you're male or female, a man or a woman. Gender is the culturally-specific social construct that says (for instance) that if you're a girl you must like pink and be nurturing. But your genitals don't actually define your personality.

The rest of your post is spot-on and I agree completely. But I think it's important to be clear that sex and gender are completely different.

Sex and gender not the same thing.

Your sex is observed at birth. Whatever you choose to call yourself, if you present unconscious in A&E unless you've had extremely radical surgery the staff will identify in seconds which sex you are, and if your skeleton is dug up a century from now archaologists won't have much issue figuring it out either. A DNA test would demonstrate conclusively. (Including if you're one of the very few rare people with a medical condition affecting your chromosomes, but you would still be male or female.)

Your gender is simply how you choose to express yourself in clothing, hair length, etc etc. It varies widely from place to place and time to time, it is fluid throughout your life based on your preferences. You cannot really have a 'female' gender or a 'male' gender unless you are a believer in stereotypes and believe that long hair/pink/ high heels/ giggling etc = female etc. Why would anyone believe in those stereotypes since they're meaningless and also vary massively between place and time. A century ago the stereotype said pink was for boys.

Your biology is a fixed fact. And your biology is specifically relevant in some situations, usually to do with your sexual organs, ie situations of nudity, medical care, vulnerability to rape etc, necessitating some limited circumstances in which same sex provision is necessary. Your child's biology is usually obvious on a scan long before birth.

Your gender is whatever you want it to be, your child will let you know their preferences and interests in their own time and will probably vary between cat/unicorn/girly stereotypes/ gender neutral / etc etc depending on mood, stage of development, pop culture, fashion, and so on.

What needs getting rid of are restrictive boxes around gender stereotypes most of which is based on toxic masculinity, and a few very noisy people believing that if they identify as something then anyone talking about some part of that group identity they don't personally have then they're entitled to start lobbing their toys out of their pram.

As I said in my op gender and sex are conflated, I do know the difference and wasn't trying to ask for gender critical thoughts, we're all on the same page.

I'm genuinely curious if anyone who doesn't belive that however would like to speak up though.

But would the parent get to pick the gender?

I know that the hospital (at least the one we used) informs the registry office of all hospital births, so presumably Ms Smith trying to register a female baby as a male baby, or vice versa, would be flagged up?

Yes the hospital would record a sex but there is nothing stopping these people for refusing to use it and keeping the "forcibly assigned gender" to themselves.

I just refuse to accept that anyone who actually believes in it would then "assign" their daughter female. They should obviously choose "no gender" but to "randomly assign" a child a gender that comes with a heap of baggage makes no sense. If they believe women can opt out of the sex based opression why would they choose it for their daughters?

I know a trans couple who have a baby daughter. No question about her sex.
Everybody, trans included, assumes children are the same gender as their sex unless that child grows up and tell you otherwise.
Where is the evidence to suggest otherwise?

Where is the evidence to suggest otherwise?

I've seen many posters and trans activists say sex is not defined by genitals and that people get "Misassigned". So I don't understand why they would risk assigning a sex if it's an arbitrary assumption based on genitals.

Transexuals I can understand would understand thsi as I understand their body dyspmorphia is linked to their genitals. But trans activists don't think male/female men/women are linked to a specific set of genitals.

Hence lesbians should be attracted to women with penises.

over use of "understand"

You have got the wrong end of the stick OP and you're not doing yourself or the terfs any favours.
Vaguely amused me though!

TIMs on Twitter are always chuntering on about being "coersively assigned" sex at birth, it's a tiresome load of old ladyballs...

You have got the wrong end of the stick OP and you're not doing yourself or the terfs any favours

How so?

I am glad to have amused you but you haven't dealt with many trans activists if you don't think they belive people are randomly assigned a sex. The post below actual refers to a "guess" by a doctor based on a quick look

nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Assigned_gender_at_birth

Here's one on my Twitter feed today talking about accidentally being assigned male at birth (don't think they're intersex but I'll take it back if so)

Nice bit of whitemalesplaining about RD too...