How do I peak trans my OH?

[MotherTERF]

Firstly, thank you mumsnet for opening my eyes! I consider myself a strident feminist but I genuinely was not tuned in to the issues around GRA until reading about it on these threads.

I have learnt so much the last few months.

I have begun to discuss this with my OH and have been dismayed by his lack of interest. At first he thought it was funny and assumed I was being deliberately controversial. He now realises I'm serious, but thinks I'm getting over invested in a 'non issue' and is concerned this is taking my attention away from other more worthy feminist causes.

He stands by the belief that most trans are just trying to get on with their lives and is worried to see me holding such a negative view of humankind.

It's starting to be the cause of some fairly heated discussion.

Please help me to peak trans him fast!!!

Would he have sex with a transwoman?
If he sees them as women this shouldn't be an issue.

Sport? Women in sport will be (and are) at a huge disadvantage when transwomen start competing.

Rape crisis centres? Should vulnerable and traumatised women be cared for by someone the same sex as them as opposed to the same sex as whoever raped them?

Tbh I don't think many men will get worked up about it as it's unlikely to affect them. Which is rather self centred.

My DH was peaked by sport.

What other feminist issues does he think you should be dealing with ?

I also agree - would he have sex with a transwoman ?

I had a similar reaction when I first mentioned the issues with my family. I was hurt and dismayed that they weren't immediately on board but I realise now that I went in with my end point rather than explaining how I got there. (I too had previously dismissed gender identity issues as something not affecting me - meh, live and let live, right?).

I explained that I have no issues with trans people (most people know a lovely trans person), but in recent years TRA ideology has developed and is aggressive and trans now includes lady-penised men and very different to 'old skool' transsexuals. I shared the Speaker's Corner incident, and a relative actually said, ''Right now I get it''. They understood I hadn't suddenly decided to demonise Dave from accounts now living as Linda.

As for it being relevant in terms of stats, sports, safety etc. I tend to very occasionally share information I come across. Fallon Fox beating the shit out of a woman is horrific to witness.

It is the issues for young people and children which anger me the most and I think are most important, so I tend to share those stories, such as the baby 'breast fed' by a person born male using drug-stimulated 'milk', just to validate an adult, it is sickening.

Good luck with your OH, I am sure he will get it eventually. Would be interested to know how you get on, please do share if you are happy to do so.

And I agree, would you have sex with a male bodied person identifying as woman. If no, you're a massive TERF.

You would think that being told that half the trans identified males incarcerated were found guilty for sex crimes would wake people up.
transcrimeuk.com/

I agree that there are many many feminist issues that need to be addressed. Many many many. Period poverty, disappearing girls around the world, pay inequalities (many during the period women are most likely to have children), rape, male violence towards women, refuges for women leaving violence, women's mental health and general healthcare, FGM, and a huge number of other issues, including the American President wanting to grab pussies.

And the issue (for me) is that all this came to a head because transactivists wanted to be 'centred' in all feminist circles, events, places and discussions. All good, you'd think. Let everyone in.

But no! Now it's othering and triggering to discuss vaginas, vulvas and womb. Breasts, BFing, childbirth, abortion, sexual assaults that involve that, male violence (because it's nothing to do with gender-feeelings), grabbing pussies, FGM and anything biological or caused or catalyzed by biology shouldn't be spoken about. But that's basically the whole of feminism.

So your choice is:

1. Let transwomen control all the feminist debate. Don't talk about female bodies.
2. Be an enormous TERF and be honest that most oppression of women is centred on our biology.

We can't even start to talk about any other issues because it's all, "what about transwomen" ALL THE TIME. You fight that; and at least have the chance to talk about feminism, or you don't; and lose that chance forever.

Hannah Mouncey

If he believes the T in "LGBT" still stands for Transsexuals, if he believes "trans women" are essentially nice, feminine, harmless gay guys, put him in Twitter tell him to search #transgirls. "Trans lesbians" while he's at it. No "safe" settings.

Ask if he wants his mum, sister, you, or his daughter have to shower with one of those tranz laydees in the pool changing rooms.

Or have to sleep in the bed next to them, if ever sick and incapacitated in hospital.

The first three links are sports related, even just looking at the pics is a bit of a shock for most guys (make sure you mention that added to their success are often the potential for endorsement deals, scholarships, etc). The last link is about crimes. Hope this helps.

gendertrender.wordpress.com/category/sports/page/2/

www.wnd.com/2017/03/female-athletes-crushed-by-women-who-were-once-men/

www.theblaze.com/news/2017/06/06/transgender-freshman-sprinter-born-a-male-wins-two-girls-state-championships

translesbianpositivity.tumblr.com/post/170520246550/the-tip-of-the-iceberg-please-add-to-this-list

I told a male friend what was being done to GNC kids, using Jazz Jennings as an example. I didn't spare him any details & he visibly winced at some bits.

Then we moved on to Hannah Mouncey & the physical advantages retained by transwomen - including the bit about the max permitted testosterone level still being well above the average level for women.

He got it.

DH peaked before me over sport. Plus being told that boys put on puberty blockers meant their penis didn't grow enough to turn it into a fake vagina, so they'd have one made out of a bit of their intestines, meaning parents signing their male children up for this are taking the decision their child will never experience an orgasm. He felt it was rather beyond anything a parent should have the power to do to their child.

But sport peaked him first - particularly the vast sums of money on the table for breaking world records for "woman", and that men who aren't fast enough to make the men's 100/200m finals in the olympics were fast enough to set new world records and collect the winnings if they are allowed to complete as a woman.

In many ways it's a tricky one, we do not have an issue with transwomen in women's spaces because they're transwomen we have an issue with them because they're men
So you have 2 barriers.

First is getting past "transwomen are women". (Why?)

Second is getting past "men in women's spaces is harmful to women" (why?)

I find my DH is quite resistant to the notion of men being generally threatening to women, because NAMALT and everything.

He can also quite unquestioningly believe "TWAW" because he can't see a Transwoman being fully male either... he sort of has a mental block like, he thinks TW are all gay men, harmless, effeminate creatures so should be kept away from the real dangerous men. He can't connect the dots that a dangerous man could also be a Transwoman.

I just end up bringing it down to "because penis"
But it gets frustrating.

*Hannah Mouncey was a turning point in peaking him though!

I’d be interested in the background of these men who don’t get it. My OH is from a working class family, didn’t go to university, worked his way through a company to end up in a highly paid job, well-read, politically left-wing. Since we started talking about this, his opinion has been a pretty straightforward ‘women don’t have dicks’ which he’s extended to ‘tbh if they’ve ever had dicks they’re not women’. He’s also always knocked round with quite an ‘alternative’ crowd - punks, cross-dressers etc etc so it’s not about thinking they’re ‘odd’. It’s more to him it’s obvious that transwomen aren’t women and that generally that’s not an issue unless they want to start accessing places and services that have good reason to be only for women.

be honest about your own biology and how it has impacted your life. maybe i'm "lucky" that i have very many examples!!

ask why he as a man would not make space for a trans identified male in men's spaces? ask how he could help make TIMs feel safer?

i'm afraid it would ultimately be a deal breaker for me though. if i am erased and silenced in the world, i need to be supported at home.

The story on this blog might be worth sharing with him:

www.thegetrealmom.com/blog/womensrestroom

Ask him if he'd give a transwomen a blow job? If not then she's transphobic and needs to work on his internal blah blah blah.

You could show him what the trans activists really think of the normal trans people who want to "pass" and get on with their own lives. They call them Truscum and abuse them as much as they do women.
In their eyes, transsexual people who have surgery or hormones are scum. I have some screen shots of some of the abuse I see on twitter.
flic.kr/s/aHsme9TMRr

whosrights well my eyes have been opened. ..

Sport!

You see it's one of the areas that had interested me the least, so I hadn't really said much.

But now I have, and actually that is troubling him.

Baby steps...thank you everyone 🙌

I said to DH - that on IWD all MNers were going to go into men's toilets and just watch men pee and laugh

he was very relieved when I told him I'd just made that up

So do you disagree that most trans people are just trying to get on with their lives? If this is his belief that you clearly don't share, what do you think the agenda of MOST transgender people is?

Not saying any of these other opinions aren't valid, just wonder what you think these people are doing if not just trying to get on with life as best they can? How many transgender friends do you have OP? Are they all trying to infiltrate the rape crisis centre for their own sexual gratification? I don't know anyone like that, trans or otherwise!!

What does peak trans mean?

Would someone please explain?