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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

WPUK Birmingham Meeting, Thu 15 March

103 replies

DebbieInBirmingham · 10/03/2018 16:20

Just wanted to plug this meeting. With the Labour Party NEC expected to announce on self-ID next Saturday, this is a very timely meeting. www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/a-womans-place-is-a-sanctuary-tickets-42945249397

WPUK Birmingham Meeting, Thu 15 March
OP posts:
TheRollingCrone · 15/03/2018 21:52

Just great to sit in a room and be able to talk. So agreed with the point that social media is not real life - as the unintended consequences of this bill become clear this bollocks will be ripped apart.
Really enjoyed your talk @DebbieinBirmingham - I also worry for transexuals living their lives demanding nothing off woman.
I understand where Becca was coming from -but I think if we concede 'Woman' we're fucked.

Love to all the MNetters in the room - I owe you all for all your patience in explaing these issue again and again with patience and humour.

TheXXFactor · 15/03/2018 22:00

Who was the MNetter towards the back who spoke near the end and told everyone to join us here in FC? Top work Smile

HarrietSmith · 15/03/2018 22:02

Waves back at the XXFactor. Very pleased to hear from Debbie in Birmingham. (Debbie I may have used the wrong pronoun at one point, and I do apologise.) Off to drink tea and eat marmite toast now - though may return to the thread tomorrow.

TheXXFactor · 15/03/2018 23:06

I don't know if Jacky Holyoake, who organised tonight's meeting, and Karen Ingala Smith are on MN but huge thanks to you both, if you are reading this Smile

theaveragewife · 15/03/2018 23:13

Really enjoyed the talks tonight, what I took from RRC wasn’t necessarily that we concede the word woman, but that we have other important ground to fight for which we are losing whilst being caught up in a challenge framed as a question - so saying ‘what is a woman’ gives the other side the power of setting the agenda and deciding who is a bigot (or not) depending on the answer.

She gave a list of questions we should be asking which are listed on her blog, and that the fight is being won using compassion rather than facts and that arming yourself with these questions will undoubtedly provoke compassion in the respondent.

Lovely to meet you @MaximumVolume @NaiceBiscuits & @YippeeKiYayMelonFarmer and hello to all the other Mumsnetters there! (I was the tall, tired looking one with hair in a trunchbull bun Grin)

wellalrighty · 15/03/2018 23:59

Really great to be there tonight. Cunty, I think I was sitting in front of you and your partner (I was wearing a grey jumper and red trainers if that helps!)

I thought it was very helpful what RRC was saying, and I would've loved to hear more. I didn't take it that she was saying we should stop using the word woman to describe ourselves, and being passionate about that. Rather, right now we need to fight the urgent battle about the law change, and we need to be smart about how we go about doing that.

Is there demand for a Brummy gathering to talk about this more?

Cuntysnark · 16/03/2018 00:08

Did we all give Jackie our contact details? I’m really keen for further discussion groups & action.

TheGoldenBough · 16/03/2018 08:14

I wasn't able to attend after all. Was really annoyed because I'd been looking forward to it.

If there are any other meets organised, I'd like to be involved if that's ok..?

OpalIridescence · 16/03/2018 09:17

I enjoyed the meeting, mainly for the fact we were in public and actually allowed to discuss the situation openly.

Also really good to meet some mumsnetters, fascinating to see behind the usernames!

Goldenbough if you are Birmingham based the organiser of the meeting, Jacky (who was really charming) is beginning a Birmingham Feminist Group if you're interested?

HarrietSmith · 16/03/2018 09:57

I was pleased to be in a room with some fellow Mumsnetters. This is partly because I have been trashed on some MN threads and appalled by others.

So my picture of Mumsnetters attending was of some extremely clean looking women with immaculate hair and make up - and who ate restrictive diets - all wiping the chairs to make sure there were no germs and gazing suspciously at other attendees while wondering about the state of their bathrooms and where their shoes had been.

Sorry to be so frivolous. I think the meeting helped me to clarify in my mind that it is not 'transphobic' to want separate spaces for (non-trans) women, while women continue to experience significant oppression within society. I think I also got to a better understanding of the needs and experiences of some transwomen.

Notwhatthedogsaid · 16/03/2018 10:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BiggerBoatNeeded · 16/03/2018 10:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheGoldenBough · 16/03/2018 12:28

OpalIridescence

Yes very much so. I'm not on twitter either though.

Is there any chance someone could PM me the details too please?

Thanks.

TheXXFactor · 16/03/2018 12:57

So my picture of Mumsnetters attending was of some extremely clean looking women with immaculate hair and make up - and who ate restrictive diets - all wiping the chairs to make sure there were no germs and gazing suspciously at other attendees while wondering about the state of their bathrooms and where their shoes had been

Are you saying I'm not immaculate?

Seriously, it was lovely to meet you and to feel the MN love in the room.

DebbieInBirmingham · 16/03/2018 20:29

I'm pleased that people found my contribution OK. I really enjoyed being part of that meeting. Thanks to everyone.

OP posts:
TheXXFactor · 16/03/2018 20:34

It was a great talk, Debbie.

theaveragewife · 16/03/2018 20:53

Debbie I thoroughly enjoyed your talk - more so since I’ve found out you teach at a school I went to for 8 years! Did you leave your email for the group?

HarrietSmith · 17/03/2018 09:45

The meeting is mentioned - briefly - here.

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/mar/17/legal-challenge-to-labour-over-shortlists-and-transwomen

IntelligentYetIndecisive · 17/03/2018 09:54

Jamie Pallas, of transrights organisation Gendered Intelligence said the language used at the meeting was harassment and discrimination under the Equality Act, adding that accusations that transactivists were silencing debate was unfounded.

Community organiser Lucy McDonagh, who attended the event, said she had been labelled a bigot for asking questions about proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act. “Literally just asking a question if these changes could potentially affect women’s safe spaces is deemed as being transphobic. So lots of women, especially working class women, are scared to ask,” she said. “We have had to access this particular space because no one else has allowed us to speak about it. We are trying to find out about law, and we are trying to find out why women have been cut out of the conversation that statistically most affects them.”

Writer and artist Shon Faye said the meetings disproved the accusation that women were being silenced. She said groups opposed to changes around self-identification often resorted to inaccurate information and demands for debate often descended into transphobic abuse

So being blocked from Twitter and Facebook isn't happening, the attempts to lose women's activists jobs are figments of our imagination, the Millwall decision wasn't due to harassment by TRAs, David Davies' comment about not having had this number of calls to deal with and the fact the WPUK meetings are effectively held in secret are all fairy stories?

Destinysdaughter · 17/03/2018 10:05

I also wasn't able to make the meeting but would definitely like to be involved in the feminist group if one is set up. Could someone please pm me with details of who to contact? I'm also on Twitter. Thanks!

TheXXFactor · 17/03/2018 10:51

Just had a LibDem canvasser on the doorstop. I told him that they would never have my vote while they support self-ID. It was great to be able to explain that many trans ppl don't support self-ID either, and that I'd heard a TW talking about that only this week. Thanks, Debbie Smile

TheGoldenBough · 17/03/2018 10:52

What was his response, XX?

DebbieInBirmingham · 17/03/2018 12:09

@theaveragewife Small world! :)

I'm in personal contact with Jacky H. She knows where I am if there are things I can be involved with.

OP posts:
HarrietSmith · 17/03/2018 12:11

I have written to my MP - as A Woman's Place suggests - expressing concern about the propsed changes. If anyone would like a copy of the text of my letter feel free to message me.

TheXXFactor · 17/03/2018 14:02

He was young enough to be of Generation Woke and said he knew about self-ID, but that it was the first time anyone had raised it on the doorstep. I stressed the point about many trans people disagreeing with it too, and the negative consequences for them if abusers exploit it. He said (not rudely) that he didn't think the Libdem policy would change, to which I replied that they wouldn't be getting my vote then. I added that many other women share my concern and asked that he report back that the issue had been raised with him.

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