Does this represent female empowerment?

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I was watching some of Little Mix's latest music videos and felt a bit conflicted. Whilst I like their music and the fact they seem to represent empowered, strong women, I couldn't help but feel a bit sad that they now look so sexualised. The OTT make up and really skimpy clothes just seem so far away from what they used to look like when they won the X Factor and to be honest does seemed to be geared towards appealing to men. Thinking of other female music stars that people often refer to as feminist icons this seems a common theme (eg beyonce, RIta Ora).

I guess my post is an attempt to get other people's views to help me clarify my own. Is this kind of thing an example of empowerment because the women are choosing it for themselves and the fact they can do this, whereas in lots of more patriarchal countries this would be banned, make it a symbol for women's rights? Or is it more the case that this attempt to package female empowerment in a male friendly package another example of the patriarchy in full force? I think maybe the latter and to be honest it's making me feel quite angry and sad

I kind of feel the same about women taking their clothes off "for female empowerment". By all means, walk around naked doing everyday things if you wish but I don't see how showing your naked body in the media empowers women.

I have been wondering this. I was looking at Ash Sarkar's recent post on Twitter (AyoCaesar) about Yarl's Wood and IWD. It is a filmed clip and she delivers it wearing a very small crop top and tight pants. Great bit of politicking, but then a woman asks in the Twitter feed why so few clothes on, it is distracting and conforming to gender stereotype etc etc - and she retorts all angry with what she wears is her business, it is not the 1950s, should she be wearing a burqa, etc etc. Lots of seemingly young women defend her on this point. I suppose I just think there is something very different amongst younger feminists, which sees feminism as 'sex-positive' and just doesn't fit into my older categories. Find it confusing. Interested in other thoughts.

Little Mix's songs have appalling lyrics. Whilst they can choose to dress how they wish, and sing what they want to, I also have the choice not to listen/watch them, and also the power to prevent my children from doing so.
Which I am exercising.

They may feel empowered by their lifestyles and body of work... but they have been socialised by a society that does not respect or value women as people.

If it really was empowering, men would be wandering around the streets naked...

I don't like the outfits either. They look like they are trying too hard to be sexy and missed out on the classy bit.

Rihanna and Taylor Swift have similar clothes but look more in control and therefore empowered.

This is based on the extensive research of looking at the TV when my kids are watching MTV (which is not too often) so you can completely disregard my opinion.

On the whole I am an old prude who doesn't like grownups prancing about in their underwear.

Not every choice a woman makes is feminist just because a woman did the choosing.

It's classic choosy-choice liberal feminism "I'm doing this because I want to". Individuals may indeed find those things empowering but there's no class analysis behind it. I think being libfem is generally a younger woman's stance and you maybe see things differently as you get older and see how the world really works - that's certainly what happened to me.

It strange though that those empowering choices almost always end up being what men in general would approve of...

You see I'm so conflicted.

Making comments about women's clothes, bodies just feels so fundamentally unfeminist BUT for as long as everything is labelled as being their choice then it just shuts down discussion on WHY they have chosen to do what they have. Kylie Jenner posting a sultry picture on Instagram on IWD just sums it up for me. Yes it's nice to look nice and there is an element of deriving confidence and feeling empowered from that but who are you ultimately trying to impress with that style of picture/look which just seems so male orientated.

It feels a bit like the way to get female approval is to gain men's approval first. Other women/girls will then want the same make approval so replicate the look. It's then seen as a look women have adopted independently when in fact it all started with the premise of appealing to men. Not sure if that makes sense or not?

I don't think anyone has to dress in a 'classy' manner though! Surely that's personal choice?
It's tricky though, as the way they dress doesn't engender respect from me... but people should be reasonably free to dress how they want. But... I hate the sexualisation and pornification in society. (And that chap at the Oscars in a harness should be ashamed- yeah, ok you have a kink? Fine, don't push your sexual preferences onto other people. Sex is private!)

Ok... I'll remove the splinters myself....

Haha- x-post there

In what way do they appeare to have power to you? Because they’re on stage?

I think a lot of woman feel the same sort of sense of "empowerment" putting on a lot of make up, and a skimp dress, as men do when they have a good hair cut, shave, nice aftershave, and an expensive suit. It's shallow, and confidence shouldn't be rooted in looks, but they have an "image" to maintain. When I think of empowered men I don't think of Dave the carpet cleaner down the road who lives in trackies, I think solicitors, doctors etc, who are not just authoritive and assertive, but also dress a lot smarter usually.

I think people like Mark Zuckerberg are great, he practicality lives in the same grey t-shirt, but he's very well respected regardless. I also think the likes of Adele etc who dress in a sexy but classy way, are covering up because they're a little overweight, or not toned, not because they're above all that.

Fission - I think (a bit like the Spice Girls) they seem to have a strong girl tribe vibe to them. Their songs superficially have female empowerment themes (thinking specifically of Power) and they just seem to be confident, successful young women.

I find this a really interesting question, party before I'm not really sure what side I'm on. I know for definite that the older I've got, the more I tend to make a conscious choice NOT to try and dress in a particularly sexy way because the older I've got, the more conscious I am that I don't want the vast majority of men to see me in a sexual way or judge me on my attractiveness. So when I'm dressing for work, for example, I aim for smart, competent, professional etc, but not sexy. And this is probably because experience has taught me that being seen by men as desirable and available is not necessarily going to end up being in my best interests. It's also partly because age and experience has given my the confidence not to need male approval. But does that make my choices better than a younger woman who wants to look sexy? Or does it just mean that I've given up, and accepted that men's unacceptable attitudes will limit my behaviour and choices?

Choice feminism is so bloody useless.

If all these supposedly empowering choices ever deviated even a millimetre from the demands of patriarchy and the male gaze, it might be onto something. Weirdly enough, all these supposedly empowering choices are exactly the same ones as patriarchy demands.

Wicked - but skimpy clothes are not the equivalent of a smart suit. For me, that would be nice dressy clothes such as an evening dress or in a work environment a nice dress/smart top and trousers.

So they don’t actually have any power? They just repeat catchy lyrics written by someone else whilst wearing little clothing .

Education is empowering, financial security is empowering. Dancing on stage in tiny clothes gives you no power.

Doobigetta - interesting... Definitely food for thought

Fission - I agree to a certain extent but obviously they are never going to be able to deliver financial security or education to women. By being in the public eye and sending out messages that will be listened to by lots of young people, there is power in that. They are role models whether you like it or not.

Education is empowering, financial security is empowering. Dancing on stage in tiny clothes gives you no power.

Exactly. Wear what you like but don’t patronise women by claiming it’s empowering to dress in skimpy clothes designed to appeal to men.

To be fair I think a lot of women dress to impress other woman, rather than men. Take the whole HD brow thing. That's not for mens benefit, they often think it looks odd, and that eyebrows shouldn't rub off during sex. Same with fake tan, loads of men don't like it, but if all your mates are doing it, you'll stick out for not using it. They do it because women judge other women on how they look. What form the "right" look takes changes with life stages, fashion and different social circles etc.

For a lot of young women, the type that like little mix etc, it is the equivalent though, if they went out clubbing or to a house party in an elegant evening gown, they'd be laughed at. They're dressing to impress their target audience. They make a big effort, and they look great. Most of these women will never use a fish fork, or go to an art gallery opening. Suits are more universal for men, I see loads of "don't I scrub up well" man in a suit ready for a wedding or christening type posts on fb. The women going to these same events will often be caked in fake tan and make up, skimpy dress on etc.

Well on one hand I really don't care what people wear. Wearing ill advised clothes while you are young enough to have the body for them is just a female rite of passage isn't It?

But on the other hand I do wonder how much of this is suggested by stylists and their record company and therefore is done for the audiences gaze and not because Little Mix like it.
Also one of them (Jessie?) did get a lot of stick for her build/looks in the media a while back so i do wonder if they are trying to conform with expectations to avoid that.

I had this discussion with my 16yo DD last night. DD shaves her head, wears whatever the hell she likes and has plenty of arguements with her boyfriend about how she won't wear clothes to please him but was adamant that I was being unreasonable about Grid Girls and Jennifer Lawrence having to wear skimpy clothes because of their jobs. Because they've made statements that it's their choice to wear those clothes. Wouldn't agree with me for a second that it's not a choice when your livelihood depends on wearing what you're told, that we're socialised into acquiescing but thinking we're doing it out of choice.

I agree with a pp, that I probably felt the same at her age, and its age and experience that makes you think that actually it's not ok.

Much of the fashion in make up now such as heavy drawn eyebrows, false eyelashes and contouring seems to have come from drag.

To my mind many women going for this style end up looking like men in drag.

But in the end I can't criticise as I was a goth in my youth and it was all about make up/clothes/hair!

Trumps - the age point is interesting isn't it. I wonder what the tipping point is that makes people see the 'choice' for what it actually is? I think it's a shame that age factors into it as if it's just older people pointing out these issues it can almost come across as a jealousy thing or that you're out of touch as opposed to the fact that you see through the BS and actually have a valid point.