Does this represent female empowerment?

[user1471506568]

I was watching some of Little Mix's latest music videos and felt a bit conflicted. Whilst I like their music and the fact they seem to represent empowered, strong women, I couldn't help but feel a bit sad that they now look so sexualised. The OTT make up and really skimpy clothes just seem so far away from what they used to look like when they won the X Factor and to be honest does seemed to be geared towards appealing to men. Thinking of other female music stars that people often refer to as feminist icons this seems a common theme (eg beyonce, RIta Ora).

I guess my post is an attempt to get other people's views to help me clarify my own. Is this kind of thing an example of empowerment because the women are choosing it for themselves and the fact they can do this, whereas in lots of more patriarchal countries this would be banned, make it a symbol for women's rights? Or is it more the case that this attempt to package female empowerment in a male friendly package another example of the patriarchy in full force? I think maybe the latter and to be honest it's making me feel quite angry and sad

I feel with this, and similar claims that e.g. pole dancing, burlesque etc are empowering is that yes, in a sense they are exercising a type of power within the patriarchal structure, but is it anything more than the power of being attractive to the Male Gaze? That is a type of power, but it seems to me that it doesn’t come with a great deal of real agency.

Obviously women can dress however they like and it’s not for me or anyone else to say they can’t or shouldn’t. But they can’t tell me that dressing like this is feminist. And it’s fine not to “do” feminism all the time (it would be exhausting, and probably impossible or dangerous anyway), just don’t try to have your cake and eat it, because it undermines the whole struggle in my view.

I don’t have a problem - nor indeed a strong opinion - about women dressing in skimpy clothes and heavy makeup.

I just object to being expected to believe that it’s empowering and if I don’t agree, I’m a fusty old crone whose brand of feminism is no longer relevant.

Little Mix are managed by Modest Management (oh the irony) which is two blokes with 40 and 30 years in the industry do I would estimate their ages as 50’s / 60’s. I am happy to be proved wrong but I would hazard a guess that Little Mix dress exactly how their management tell them to dress.

Kitty - interesting. To be honest, based on what I see on social media I wouldn't be that surprised if the girls did choose to dress like that. Lots of young people with no management company behind them making similar choices. It's just so hard isn't it? Separating choices made with completely free will (if that even exists) that could be seen as empowering from choices that have been so heavily influenced by society/others/the patriarchy that they don't really represent a choice at all.

Meant to say women not girls in post above

Anyone who thinks that Little Mix have much choice in how they present themselves is kidding themselves. It's all big business. And the patriarchy's greatest triumph of recent years is persuading women that sexualised/pornified behaviour and dress is "empowering"

user1471506568 and those young women on social media dress the way their “empowered” hero’s dress - shame those hero’s are being told how to dress by men in their 50’s / 60’s.

How are they representing empowered women? Do they sing about the importance of education, treatment of women by society?
Do you think that any of those women would have that job if they didn’t look and dress in the way that is sexual appealing to most men? Keeping their job basically depends on their perception of fuckability.

Sorry for the poor SPAG.

This Jennifer Lawrence promoting her new movie

Epic - I can't believe nobody realised how obvious that would look. Again she's probably someone society would perceive as a strong woman and I understand because she said it was her choice then it must all be ok. A turkey voting for Christmas does not make the turkey empowered

User
That's an interesting post and something I've thought about a lot too now that I'm middle aged and menopausal.

I always considered myself a feminist but I'm heterosexual and although I think I tried not to believe this I knew that if I was full on I'd probably never get laid so I wanted to believe in choosy-choice liberal feminism because it allowed me to embrace the things I loved like make up, fashion, Madonna etc etc without questioning any of it.

I feel differently now and it's best described by a friend who said that the menopause meant she had woken up and for the first time could properly see how much intensional & unintentional pandering to men she had done in her life. Now she could clearly see the way things really were she was filled with crusading rage and a desire to challenge everything and she didn't care if that meant she wasn't nice anymore she was going to roar.

I found that all quite inspiring...

Look at how a lot of the more unpleasant men treat women.
Now look at how they, or their type, view Little Mix. Or anything else actually. Porn is a prime example.

If you're unsure if something empowers women, look at how misogynists react to it. There's your answer. If it empowered women, many men would be against it.

It sounds more like internalized misogyny than empowerment.

Young women, in particular, often confuse the two.

terry - loved your post, thanks!

Vaguely - Its funny isn't it, because I know Little Mix are designed now to appeal to men but I think a certain type of misogynist would find them a bit intimidating because they seem to own their sexuality even if it's all an illusion. Like how certain cultures/countries encourage women to cover up, I think the patriarchy ties itself up in knots sometimes about what it actually wants women to be and represent.

they seem to own their sexuality

What do you mean by that? How ?

Genuinely not understanding that.

Fisson - just that they portray to their audience that they are in complete control of what they wear and do. I don't necessarily think they are at all in control but this is the image they project.

Oh

Fission - not sure I understand now. Why the ?

I just don’t understand what that has to do with their sexuality.

Because they way they dress and act is highly sexualised, I see the things as linked. Maybe wrongly...

Ah, I see what ya mean now.

The patriarchal structure has for centuries reinforced teenage girls as the beauty ideal. That’s why the nudes in the paintings by the Old Masters have no body hair and gravity-defying, tiny breasts. They’re not women, they’re girls.

It’s not surprising that girls and young women internalise this and wield the fleeting “power” of that attractiveness and feel empowered because of the validation this brings.

It’s not real power though, and the patriarchal structure infantilises women, because older, educated women are a threat to the structure. Keep women wanting to look like and behave like girls, and they are less likely to pose a threat to male dominance.

It’s also unsurprising that as women get older the scales fall off our eyes and we see that “power” based on sexual attractiveness only lasts as long as we are considered attractive by our culture. That’s why liberal feminism is a young person’s philosophy.

epic that is exactly the image my DD and I were discussing. My point being why was she wearing an evening dress in the middle of the day, on a cold day? Would she really wake up and think, "oh it's cold, I've got lots of interviews, best wear something open to the waist? Look at my colleagues, all over-dressed in their several layers, they'll overheat!" That's an informed personal choice? Not one I'd make, but I'm at that age when I just constantly seem to be saying (only partly in jest) "she'll need a nice vest on with that".

Reality -such a good post. Really succinctly articulated some of my ponderings around this and more. I'm early 30s so maybe just reaching the age where the realisation kicks in about this stuff. I feel like now I know this great secret, I want to pass it on to all the other young women and stop them being complicit in all of this but then like you say they hold the power in such a system so have less of an incentive to notice it let alone challenge it. There definitely was a time not so long ago when I honestly thought women had it better than men regarding some of this stuff. So so so naive!