Monroe Bergdorf again - The Sunday Times

[flintyminty]

There is another article on Bergdoff in The Sunday Times. I've used my article limit so can't read whole thing but the strap line in my email link is:

"After overcoming anxiety and abuse, the trans model and activist Munroe Bergdorf says children need help to choose their gender"!

Please could somebody post a link. Thanks

Also, it is in the Style section!!!

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-labour-adviser-munroe-bergdorf-let-children-choose-their-own-gender-mgw9bw9rs

Thanks TERFclick

We require a share token now.

Sorry TERFclick, I posted to soon. I can't access that link as have used my article limit. Is there another way of accessing it?

Cross posted - what is a share token?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/interview-trans-model-and-activist-munroe-bergdorf-speaks-about-her-facial-feminisation-surgery-for-the-first-time-6gz8q2tpq?shareToken=42862b9583386e67933abd1c320aac66

A controversial Labour Party adviser on equality claims children should be able to choose their gender so they can “be themselves”.

The transgender model Munroe Bergdorf, 31, said she would have “leapt at the opportunity” to self-identify as a girl when she was eight.

In an interview with The Sunday Times’s Style magazine today, she says she underwent facial feminisation surgery because she was “so worried about looking masculine”.

“I knew I’d be swollen and bruised afterwards,” she said. “It is an extremely invasive procedure that entails filing down the bone around the brow and chin that develops in male puberty. My face still hasn’t completely healed — in fact I’m going to look totally different in a year.”

Bergdorf announced her new role of…

I am unable to read further. I don't know how people obtain share tokens.

A share token is when a subscriber shares an article - you get so many share tokens to use but the above link will work for you as I’m a subscriber

Thanks Badger

The Times published the below yesterday - I used my one free article & still had the tab open.

Labour LGBT+ adviser Munroe Bergdorf wanted to ‘gay bash’ star
Paul Morgan-Bentley, Head of Investigations
March 3 2018, 12:01am, The Times

A Labour Party adviser on LGBT+ issues faces calls to resign after branding a Twitter follower a “hairy barren lesbian” and saying she wants to “gay bash” a TV star.

The transgender model Munroe Bergdorf, 29, was appointed on Monday as an LGBT+ adviser to Dawn Butler, the shadow equalities secretary. Ms Bergdorf announced her role by posting a photograph of herself at parliament with Jeremy Corbyn and writing that she would “help form and push through fairer and more effective policy change”. But The Times discovered a tweet where she made fun of a friend, saying: “How’s your barren womb? We all know your little secret . . . hairy lesbian!” She also criticised a singer on television, saying: “You have to admit she did look like a butch LEZZA tho.” The DJ from London wrote that a character on the American TV show Glee was so “annoying” that “even I’d like to gay bash him!”

Ms Bergdorf has said all white people are racist and “women are getting feminism wrong”.

Nigel Evans, a gay Tory MP, said last night she must resign or be sacked. He added: “I’m absolutely shocked. I don’t know which community she’s representing but it is certainly not mine.”

The Labour Party announced on Monday that it had formed an LGBT+ Advisory Panel. Mr Corbyn and Ms Butler launched the group at a reception in parliament and posed for photographs with members. The panel includes Owen Jones, a columnist for The Guardian, and Linda Riley, a magazine publisher.

Ms Bergdorf was dropped as a model by L’Oréal last year over comments on Facebook. She was said to have written: “Honestly I don’t have energy to talk about the racial violence of white people any more . . . Yes ALL white people.” The post was later deleted. She has also labelled suffragettes as “white supremacists” and said feminists should not focus on female reproduction because “not all women have a vagina”.

In an exchange with a friend on Twitter in 2012 she wrote: “Aren’t you meant to be crying over the fact that your womb is broken you hairy barren lesbian.” Another tweet referred to a follower as a “saggy ol dyke”.

Two years earlier, Ms Bergdorf tweeted: “Ever find that sometimes you’re just NOT in the mood for a gay and their flapping arms . . . Queen PLEASE . . . Calm down or I’ll show u drama!!!” She made fun of a male friend tweeting about the singer Celine Dion, writing: “Get a grip you old poof”. In April last year, she wrote: “Gay male Tories are a special kind of dickhead.”

Mr Evans said: “If I was looking for an LGBT champion she would be at the bottom of my list. Many people will be offended by these tweets. Corbyn should think again about whether he wants the gay community represented by such a person.”

Conor Burns, another gay Tory MP, said: “Any civilised right-minded person would find these comments shocking. We will see if the Labour leadership thinks these things are acceptable based on whether she stays in her position or goes.”

Ms Bergdorf’s role on the panel advising Ms Butler is unpaid and not managed centrally by Labour. Last night, the Labour Party, Ms Butler and Ms Bergdorf all declined to comment. A spokesman for Ms Butler has previously commented on the LGBT+ panel, saying: “Dawn is proud to stand with those challenging discrimination.”

Ms Bergdorf has defended her comments about gay Tories, saying the language was “strong and perhaps I wouldn’t use that turn of phrase now,” before adding: “I do continue to be confused by how somebody who identifies as a gay male can actively support a political party such as the Conservatives.”

On suffragettes, she said that initially only some women with property won the right to vote and “these conditions stood in the way of working-class women and largely women of colour”. She defended comments on racism, saying: “Society does unconsciously centre and prioritise whiteness, which leads to unconscious bias and ultimately racism.”

[email protected]

CAMPAIGNER’S TWEETS

On lesbians: “Aren’t you meant to be crying over the fact that your womb is broken you hairy barren lesbian” (March 18, 2012)

On gay men: “Ever find that sometimes you’re just NOT in the mood for a gay and their flapping arms” (August 19 2010)

On suffragettes: “The Suffragettes were white supremacists who were fighting for WHITE women’s rights” (February 18 2018)

I must say I’m quite surprised the Sunday Times have given Munroe any airtime. They’ve been so good with GC articles and Janice Turner is an absolute shero

Badgerthebodger Perhaps it's because the 'me, me, me-ness' of the article speaks for itself.

Of all the criticisms one could, should, level at Bergdorf, I don't think not having a beautiful (yes, you saw feminine man rather than woman) face was ever one of them. The post surgery photos are awful. Barbie-style plastic surgery that you see on many American women. For all that Bergdorf makes me rage stroke, I think this is sad.

I must say I’m quite surprised the Sunday Times have given Munroe any airtime

It is a studiously neutral article but see the comments on it. Possibly they are being clever because they can bring her appointment to the attention of readers who will see it as another example of Labour idiocy with no need for the paper to attack Bergdorf.

vaguely just caught the tail end of the newspapers review on Andrew Marr (there’s a piece in MOS too apparently). Two guests and Marr, all incredulous at the stuff this individual is saying, especially about gay men. The scales are falling from many more people’s eyes daily. Bergdorf is rapidly peak transing a lot of previously uninterested/unaffected people (for that read, men)

Is there a share token for the other Times article?

I started taking a low dose of my friend’s hormones. These gave me the puberty that I would have had as a teenage girl. Over the course of three years, your skin gets softer, you grow breasts and hair, and the body’s fat distribution shifts. It doesn’t change your voice, though, you have to train that yourself.

Except it doesn't, does it, because a teenage girl goes through puberty and starts menstruating and is able to carry a pregnancy. Someone born with a male body cannot go through the same puberty as a teenage girl.

Badgerthebodger Perhaps it's because the 'me, me, me-ness' of the article speaks for itself*

Yes. I don't think that will escape the notice of readers of The Sunday Time.

The post surgery photos are awful.

I normally feel really, really apprehensive about commenting on the looks of people I disagree with - but something about Bergdorf's blatant but ultimately unsuccessful imitation of women's appearances really rubs me the wrong way.

There's something I find instinctively demeaning about the badly positioned comedy breasts, the porny style, the posing. It feels like mockery to me.

Far be it from me to demand considerations for my feelings in other people's cosmetic choices. But something, and I can't exactly pinpoint what exactly, Bergdorf makes me feel deeply uncomfortable.

Now, I'm not a TRA, so I'm aware I'll live. Still ..

Bergdorf is showing us the “type” of woman we apparently should be.

A typical male pornographic image. They very obviously don’t think much of women.

In an exchange with a friend on Twitter in 2012 she wrote: “Aren’t you meant to be crying over the fact that your womb is broken you hairy barren lesbian.” Another tweet referred to a follower as a “saggy ol dyke”.

This is absolutely outrageous, especially coming from someone supposedly representing LGBT. And Monroe was TWENTY FIVE YEARS OLD in 2012, so can't be dismissed as some kind of 'youthful folly'.

We all have milestones in our life that help us to feel like we’re going in the right direction. Two weeks ago, I walked down the catwalk at two fashion shows — Kolchagov Barba and Teatum Jones at London Fashion Week — and before that at Gypsy Sport in New York. Although it wasn’t obvious, only the previous month, I was in Antwerp to undergo facial feminisation surgery (FFS), a serious operation that involved reducing the size of my chin and softening the brow line.
I’d wanted to do it for the best part of a decade, and to look in the mirror now is a huge relief. I used to wear make-up all the time, even to go down to the shops, and would laugh with my hand hiding my chin because I was so worried about looking masculine. I saw myself in a dysphoric way, and the anxiety could be debilitating — I spent my whole life navigating my around it.

It has not been easy getting to this point. A lot of people think that trans people are extremely vain and just want to look a certain way, but that isn’t it at all. I didn’t want to look like somebody else, I just wanted to bring my exterior more into harmony with my interior.
Growing up, I’d always felt uncomfortable with my gender. As a child, I didn’t understand why I felt so isolated or why I felt like I needed to get out of my skin. When teachers grouped the children into girls and boys, I didn’t know where to go — I didn’t feel like a boy. In my teens, I suffered from anxiety (I still take medication for it), and when I entered my twenties, I became almost agoraphobic. There were times when I couldn’t leave the house in the daytime, or take public transport, because I was so paranoid about my appearance.

Understanding who I was and how to put it into words has been a slow burn. I met my first trans friend when I was 18 and had moved to Brighton from my home in Essex — it blew my mind that you could even transition. She told me everything. I started to dress and live as non-binary — not exclusively male or female — and it helped me understand my own behaviour. I started my medical transition at 24 (I’m 31 now); it’s a slow, difficult process.

First, I went to my GP, who referred me to a psychiatrist, who referred me to a gender clinic. Then you are told you need to live for two years as your chosen gender identity before you can start hormone therapy. The NHS needs to rethink that process, because people take it into their own hands if they’re not helped — because I was desperate, I started taking a low dose of my friend’s hormones. These gave me the puberty that I would have had as a teenage girl. Over the course of three years, your skin gets softer, you grow breasts and hair, and the body’s fat distribution shifts. It doesn’t change your voice, though, you have to train that yourself.

Transition was exciting but scary. It was a turbulent time, hormonally — you’re going through puberty, coming into womanhood and not really knowing what to do with yourself. I think most women can relate to that. I had started a club night and went into my wild-child period as I grew into the person I wanted to be. I kept ending up in emotionally abusive relationships. When you have low self-worth, instead of accepting the love that you deserve, you settle for small scraps. Aged 24, I was raped by someone I knew. Eventually I realised I needed to make changes in my life and start letting in the people who deserved it, rather than just accepting the attention of men who found me attractive.

I didn’t have the FFS surgery to stop people knowing I’m trans — I’m proud of my story — but there is so much people take for granted when you’re not trans. I always knew FFS was something I needed to do for a happier life. I’d seen friends go through it and knew I’d be swollen and bruised afterwards — it is an extremely invasive procedure that entails filing down the bone around the brow and chin that develops in male puberty — but I had absolutely no doubt in my mind that I wanted to get it done. It’s not available on the NHS — I saw Dr Bart van de Ven, at the 2pass Clinic in Antwerp — and it is expensive (about £25,000), so it was a lot of money to raise.
After the surgery, I shut myself away for three weeks to recover — I didn’t see my parents, friends or even my girlfriend. After I healed, I went straight into work and then onto New York for fashion week, so it was a whirlwind. I sent my parents pictures, though, and they were super-supportive; they know I’ve wanted to have it for so long. My younger brother, 27, has always been more understanding about my transition, while my parents — my father is Jamaican, my mother is white British — took longer. But then it’s different when it’s your baby who is transitioning, especially if you’re cisgender (people whose gender identity matches the sex they were born with) and a baby boomer, as you’ll have more societal norms to unlearn. We’re all really close now.

My friends who have seen me post-surgery say I look more like “me”, and less like I’ve got something on my shoulders. My face still hasn’t completely healed — in fact I’m going to look totally different in a year, because it takes that long to settle. I’ve been getting a lot more male attention (not exactly what I’m about, as I’ve been in an open relationship with a woman for three years) since the surgery, which is a weird contrast to how I used to be treated — trans women can be sexualised and fetishised by men, but they’re also seen as “less” than cisgender women. I don’t feel women treat me that differently. I’m bisexual and have always had a good relationship with women.
I think some trans people in the public eye are forced to be activists simply because of people’s lack of knowledge. For them, just existing is activism. With every part of my life I want to give a reference point to younger generations, as I didn’t have many when I was transitioning, to help them feel less alone and more empowered. It can only be a good thing to be honest about FFS surgery, so that more people know it’s an option and to give them hope if they are battling with their identity or appearance. I know surgery isn’t the be all and end all, and it’s not the solution to all my problems, but I feel like it is a step in the right direction. I don’t think any of us feel perfectly complete, do we? None of us feels like we’re 100% the person we need to be.

Apologies for paragraphs.

Then you are told you need to live for two years as your chosen gender identity before you can start hormone therapy. The NHS needs to rethink that process, because people take it into their own hands if they’re not helped

Yeah, right. The NHS should immediately allocate a shit-ton of its famous spare resources to any entitled narcissist who demands the expensive non-essential treatment of their choice NOW. God forbid people like MB should have to wait to get soft skin and hair.

Is there a share token link for this? www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-labour-adviser-munroe-bergdorf-let-children-choose-their-own-gender-mgw9bw9rs