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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

My Life CBBC Transgender

88 replies

MrsPatterson2014 · 03/03/2018 10:16

I have been reading these threads for months, never felt brave enough to post. Have been promted by my 7 and 9 year old telling me that people can be born in the wrong body and they are Transgender. They both repeated this as a matter of faith as being 7 and 9 their critical faculties are still very much in development. Hence a conversation with them about how no one can be born in the wrong body etc. Have only watched about 10 mind of the programme ( will watch the rest later) but was presented very uncritically. Am rambling a bit as in a hurry but I think my point is, should CBBC really be presenting this issue as fact to young and susceptible children?

OP posts:
NancyDrawed · 12/01/2021 15:52

Can you link or at least give me a hint of where I can find proper scientific evidence that 'supports being transgender' (not people with DSDs)

I am also interested in where the 1% detransition figure comes from? All the information I have read seems to say that no one really knows what the level of detransition is, due to people being lost from follow up.
Of the majority of those 1% that you say detransition because of a lack of acceptance from those around them, why should that matter, if they are living their true authentic life? And I ask that genuinely, not flippantly - why does someone else's acceptance of how a person chooses to live their life matter to an individual who is so sure that they are trans that they go through the process?

Britishkid7gk · 12/01/2021 15:54

metro.co.uk/2020/03/01/woman-sue-nhs-rushed-gender-reassignment-treatment-12330020/

Check the link out. She is suing the NHS because she regrets her own decisions. The detransition rate is so incredibly low and a majority of people detransitioning are doing so because of the transphobia they face. The Tavistock have correctly treated thousands of transgender individuals.

Britishkid7gk · 12/01/2021 15:58

Transgender individuals are more likely to be sexually assaulted. They experience transphobia on a daily basis. In America black transwomen have a life expectancy of THIRTY FIVE because so many trans individuals are murdered. Regardless of your gender, you have to put your safety first.

Newbee9 · 12/01/2021 16:02

tallhedgehog

“Hello, I am shocked by the intolerance on this thread. I am a teenager, who watched the show aged 7. Despite being a tomboy and a lesbian, i am not 'confused' and i understand the frankly basic difference between gender dysphoria and not liking pink. The show didn't confuse me in the slightest, merely expanding my horizons and making me more tolerant. In fact, the concept made perfect sense to me, a 7 year old, and i think it shows your internalised transphobia that you struggle with the concept. Oh, and being transgender is thoroughly supported by scientists. I suggest you educate yourselves instead of posting intolerant views against a show starring a 13 year old boy”

Tall hedgehog.
I am Leo was first aired Nov 2014. If you watched it then (and not later on repeat) the oldest you can possibly be now (as you were 7 at the time) is 13 years old.

Firstly, does MN allow 13 year olds to post?
Secondly, the JD review established that it is unlikely 16 year olds and younger have the capacity to make sound decisions about such matters.
This was agreed by three judges. It is enshrined in law.
Maybe best to discuss with your parent first when using the internet. Posting without parental permission when you’re under 16 is fraught with issues. Your internet safety use needs to be a priority.

yourhairiswinterfire · 12/01/2021 16:05

@Britishkid7gk

metro.co.uk/2020/03/01/woman-sue-nhs-rushed-gender-reassignment-treatment-12330020/

Check the link out. She is suing the NHS because she regrets her own decisions. The detransition rate is so incredibly low and a majority of people detransitioning are doing so because of the transphobia they face. The Tavistock have correctly treated thousands of transgender individuals.

The headline is misleading. The article was referring to the action Keira took in 2020, and clearly states that it was a judicial review.

"‘A judge has this week decided that the proposed judicial review of the Gender Identity Development Service approach may proceed to a hearing."

There is a trans person currently suing the NHS during a global pandemic for long wait times, even though they're all sorted now. Suing the NHS during a time where people can't even have their urgent cancer treatments. Nice of them, isn't it?

Britishkid7gk · 12/01/2021 16:09

Also if you want figured go check out Jammidodger on YouTube. He is a transman who has done a PHD on being trans so it’s pretty safe to say he knows what he is talking about. He has videos about Keira Bell and JK Rowling which both contain many statistics and sources related to being trans.

CaraDuneRedux · 12/01/2021 16:17

May I suggest that our recent influx of young teens might more usefully spend their time on homeschooling?

Start with history - genuine civil rights movements like women's suffrage, black civil rights.

Still with history - the history of eugenics in the 20th century, paying attention to the fact that eugenics was not just practised in fascist regimes but also in liberal democracies like the UK, USA and Sweden. Stretch question: does advocating for the sterilisation of children ever place you on "the right side of history"? (Stretch stretch question for those with their eye on A level history: from a historiographical point of view, do phrases like the "right side of history" make sense?)

Politics: given that gender reassignment is a protected characteristic under the Equalities Act, list the rights that trans people in the UK currently lack compared to the general population?

Politics: research the phenomenon of astroturfing with particular reference to the growth of smokers' rights organisations funded by tobacco companies and supposedly independent climate change sceptical think tanks funded by fossil fuel companies (see Merchants of Doubt for further reading). Ask yourself how special interest groups for straight white males were able to reinvent themselves as civil rights movements?

PrawnofthePatriarchy · 12/01/2021 16:27

Transgender individuals are more likely to be sexually assaulted.

Evidence? Because it seems improbable that men who identify as women are more likely to be sexually assaulted than women, given that such men are a lot better able to defend themselves than are women.

In America black transwomen have a life expectancy of THIRTY FIVE because so many trans individuals are murdered.

This is not true. If you insist that it is then produce evidence. There is a high death toll and reduced life expectancy among prostitutes of both sexes and any gender in South America.

Your claims are old ones that have been proved false many times. That's what comes of parroting claims you haven't checked out.

In the UK transgender people are one of the safest demographics. In the recent past there have been more trans murderers than victims.

Britishkid7gk · 12/01/2021 16:28

Keira Bell has stolen rights from thousands of children. She has made the lives of trans youth 10x harder. Trans individuals face wait lists of years just to find out that they can’t even get puberty blockers because a stupid court ruling. You can understand why you would be angry. Transgender individuals are more likely to commit suicide and the long they spend waiting for medical help, the closer they will get to killing themselves. Jammidodger on YouTube has a very informative video about this which I would recommend watching

Britishkid7gk · 12/01/2021 16:31
  1. Transwomen are women and transmen are men
  2. What do prostitutes have to do with this?
  3. www.hrc.org/resources/sexual-assault-and-the-lgbt-community
OldCrone · 12/01/2021 16:36

Transgender individuals are more likely to commit suicide and the long they spend waiting for medical help, the closer they will get to killing themselves.

Young people who suffer from poor mental health need mental health support, not puberty blockers, which have a 'common or very common' side effect of depression, according to NICE.

bnfc.nice.org.uk/drug/triptorelin.html#sideEffects

You should be campaigning for young people struggling with mental health issues to have better mental health support, not for them to be given untested drugs which have the potential to make their condition worse rather than better (as well as all the negative effects on their physical health).

The Tavistock also said that in many cases, the mental health of girls deteriorated after they were prescribed puberty blockers.

CaraDuneRedux · 12/01/2021 16:37

Re. 1 Christian friends of mine would assert with equal conviction and sincerity that Jesus Christ is the son of God and our saviour.

I don't believe them either.

Unthinkingly repeating quasi-religious mantras doesn't win people over to your position. It just makes you look at best a bit naive and at worst a bit dim.

yourhairiswinterfire · 12/01/2021 16:43

Keira Bell has stolen rights from thousands of children. She has made the lives of trans youth 10x harder. Trans individuals face wait lists of years just to find out that they can’t even get puberty blockers because a stupid court ruling. You can understand why you would be angry.

No, Keira Bell exposed wrongdoing. The Tavistock were acting wrong, according to 3 well respected high court judges.

They should never have been accepting consent for this kind of ''treatment'' from children in the first place. They've caused this mess. If they were acting properly and there were no problems, they wouldn't have lost. Your anger should be directed at the Tavistock and everyone else involved in experimenting on children who don't have the capacity to consent.

Transgender individuals are more likely to commit suicide

And this is just bullshit. It seems you get your information from Twitter memes or something...

Britishkid7gk · 12/01/2021 16:51

Anti depressants also have the side effect of depression listed on the box. My friends was prescribed antidepressants and within a week of starting to take them, I found myself calling her an ambulance to stop her killing herself. Plenty of trans individuals will happily tell you that transitioning has saved their lives.

Britishkid7gk · 12/01/2021 16:53

Keira Bell continued her transition as an adult even choosing to have gender reassignment surgery. Surely this proves that adults can’t consent to treatment?? How about we just stop having life saving treatment all together because adults can consent to treatment they later regret too! Why don’t we ban tattoos and piercings as people get them removed? Why not ban cosmetic surgery which many people later regret?

Thingybob · 12/01/2021 16:59

@Britishkid7gk

Also if you want figured go check out Jammidodger on YouTube. He is a transman who has done a PHD on being trans so it’s pretty safe to say he knows what he is talking about. He has videos about Keira Bell and JK Rowling which both contain many statistics and sources related to being trans.
Many of us have watched Jammiedodger's video and it's been discussed on previous threads including this one

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3988590-What-do-people-think

yourhairiswinterfire · 12/01/2021 17:05

Surely this proves that adults can’t consent to treatment

So you agree that as an adult Keira still wasn't mature enough to make such a life changing decision, but you're arguing that 12 year olds are?? Okay...

How about we just stop having life saving treatment all together because adults can consent to treatment they later regret too! Why don’t we ban tattoos and piercings as people get them removed? Why not ban cosmetic surgery which many people later regret?

The judicial review was about informed consent. Do you understand what informed consent means?

newyearnewname123 · 12/01/2021 19:22

Transwomen are women and transmen are men

What makes you think this? Really? I mean it's just not true is it?

BreatheAndFocus · 12/01/2021 20:00

Keira Bell has stolen rights from thousands of children. She has made the lives of trans youth 10x harder. Trans individuals face wait lists of years just to find out that they can’t even get puberty blockers because a stupid court ruling

What a nasty thing to say - ignorant too. Keira has protected children. More than 80% of children who believe themselves to be trans desist. They mainly grow up to be gay. There needs to be better mental health support, exploration of other possible issues, etc not handing out puberty blockers with little safeguards.

You sound very young. Do you not think children should be protected?

JanewaysBun · 12/01/2021 20:05

Black transwomen do indeed have a higher death rate simply because black males are more likely to be murdered across the population as a whole. This is of course terrible on an individual level and for society as a whole and we should all be working towards addressing this.

So yes please do put your energy behind the systematic and societal reasons black males are likely to face violence but don't pretend it's only the trans ones :)

ALittleBitofVitriol · 12/01/2021 20:16

How old are you @Britishkid7gk?

Wandawomble · 13/01/2021 01:37

[quote Britishkid7gk]1. Transwomen are women and transmen are men

  1. What do prostitutes have to do with this?
  2. www.hrc.org/resources/sexual-assault-and-the-lgbt-community[/quote]
At the point where you are old enough to have sex you will know the difference.
EdgeOfACoin · 13/01/2021 06:20

Britishkid I watched that Jammidodger video. Everything that Jamie said in there has been discussed extensively on these boards (and quite frankly, completely demolished.)

For example, Jamie says that women and transwomen are entitled to the same rights, whereas men and transmen do not need the same rights. However, neither Jamie nor Shaaba explain what these rights are.

Please can you tell me what rights women and transwomen need that men and transmen don't need?

Usually, rights and protections for a specific group of people depend on that group of people sharing certain characteristics not shared by anyone outside the group. For instance, children have certain extra protections based on the fact that they are smaller, weaker and have less developed brains than adults. Adults have certain rights that children don't have (eg the right to vote or drink) because they have reached the age of maturity. The one characteristic that all adults share is that they are over the age of 18.

So please could you explain which characteristics are shared by all women and transwomen that are not shared by any men or transmen? Unless that can be answered, I don't know what rights Jamie is talking about.

I believe, however, that there was a case in America where a woman lost her job (I think) because of her need to be able to breastfeed. Once her job would have been protected under sex-discrimination laws, but she lost her case essentially because 'men can breastfeed too'. I'm afraid the details of this case have escaped me, but I am interested in your thoughts on that, given Jamie and Shaaba's position?

Wandawomble · 13/01/2021 09:28

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/slate.com/human-interest/2015/02/angela-ames-sex-discrimination-case-breast-feeding-mom-loses-because-men-can-lactate-too.amp

Here’s the case you are talking about.

I’d also like to know BritishKid’s view on this, do you believe male-sexed people have the right to undress and shower in communal change rooms with teenage girls?

Also I would like to know what BritishKid thinks of women who have been raped and men who have been raped, asking for a same sex doctor. Should they be allowed to do this?

Also I would like to know what you think of transwidows. Should they be allowed to speak if their partner has been lying to them and abusive towards them?

Also I’d like to know how many trans people you think have been murdered in the UK. Can you please provide statistics.

Can you also explain why so many autistic girls are suddenly transitioning? Can you find some statistics and reasons to explain why?

So many questions! I look forward to your responses and then I’m going to ask you more questions.

Diverze · 13/01/2021 11:27

@Britishkid7gk

Less than 1% of people detransition. Of that 1% a majority of them detransition due to not being accepted by those around them. Keira Bell is a one off case which has stupidly been allowed to impact on all transgender individuals in the UK. Her case doesn’t show that children can’t make their own decisions. She AS AN ADULT chose to have top surgery. It’s nothing to do with her age or doctors but more her feeding her doctors lies.
Part of the problem we have is that we have two different groups (at least) of trans people here.

Pre 2010-ish, we have always had a tiny number of people who insisted from very early on, usually around age 3, that they "were not" a boy, despite their sexed body, and "were" in fact a girl. This was more common in natal males. These people were vehement, expressed clear gender discomfort throughout their childhood, and were the group studied in the "only 1percent detransition" group.

The second, larger cohort, are mostly natal females. Parents will say no expression of gender discomfort was evident in childhood (though they may have not been especially "girly"; that isn't the same as persistent and consistent discomfort with ones gender). They announce they are trans at puberty (around 12 to 15 ish). These are the 4400 percent increased group, who simply didn't appear in gender identity services before 2010 ish. They have not been studied to see if their desistence rates are the same as the first group (I suspect far higher) and they are much more likely to be autistic or otherwise vulnerable.

The problem is that Mermaids began by representing that first group and has embraced the second group without acknowledging that the groups are different in many ways. They are applying the limited research of the first group to the second. However in reality the aetiology and trajectory of the two groups may be very different. They need to acknowledge this.

Transgender Trend's problem is that it acknowledges the second (much bigger) group, but doesn't accept that the first, tiny group have always existed and may be different and may indeed benefit from a pathway that is medical.

Then TRAs, a different group again, many if whom are late transitioning men who possibly have still different reasons for "wanting to change sex" have come into the mix insisting that rather than "I need to live as if I am a woman in society in order to feel at peace", as the first group above used to (mostly) say, the message has become "I literally am a woman if I say so and you must accept me in every space".

Basically we need to acknowledge that we are not dealing with one homogenous group here, and that not all trans people are the same. And that research done on one cohort cannot be applied to another. It's like saying that because research on huskies shows they are fine in the snow and need huge amounts of exercise, that therefore my Italian greyhound will be fine pulling a sledge - because both are dogs after all.

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