I just outed myself as a “Terf”

[Zintox]

Oh good grief. I will have to name change after this as it’s too outing.

I am involved in an organisation which works with local Maternity services representing women’s views and helping to shape the service.

At a recent meeting we were discussing accessibility and a fellow member mentioned trans. It was picked up as a discussion point so I left it but it got me wondering what my organisation’s stance was.

Tonight I was talking to the Chair (I have a position of authority too) and asked the question.

She is usually so well informed but in this just looked at me and said “what about people born in the wrong body?” I said I didn’t think we could ignore biology and I couldn’t support that in the context of our work.

Can. Of. Worms.

I’ve now sent her a link to some resources but basically she now thinks I’m an evil bigot. Arrrgh! This is beyond awkward.

I dont understand how it is relevant to trans? Is it about how to approach trans men?

HA ha didn't she like the thread you sent her ?

Isn't it an issue for people working with maternity services not to understand biology

I don't get what question you asked, or what it is that you couldn't support?

She hasn’t read the thread yet. She may not at all.

The issue is that I cannot be on board with pretending biological men are women and vice versa. It’s in the context of a trans man being pregnant and accessing maternity services.

I fully support that they receive services it’s more about language and the erasure of women for example by talking about “people who access maternity services” rather than women.

It’s about where do I draw the line and speak out? As I am in a position to raise this and see it discussed but might in the process end up seen as a bigot and perhaps lose my position.

This ideology of people born in the wrong body, has been uncritically accepted hasn't it?

Yet there is absolutely no scientific evidence, that anyone can be born in the "wrong" body. Just, none. At all.

I asked my organisation’s position on trans.

Yes but I'm sure a lot of places don't have a policy, until a TRA shoves their way in.
Then the policy is well women can fuck off

TopShop
M & S

Under what circumstances would a biological man rock up to a maternity unit? If you're talking about a transman, if they have a uterus (and a full one at that...) they're treated as the woman they are, surely?
Trans has no place in a discussion on Maternity Services, the bloody world's gone mad.

Changing the language they use for everyone s not inclusive. It excludes the majority of users who are comfortable being pregnant women.

'The issue is that I cannot be on board with pretending biological men are women and vice versa'

And it's utterly ridiculous that you're in a position where you feel that you're being expected to go along with this nonsense. It's biological FACT, not just a random opinion. Being 'born in the wrong body' may be a genuine feeling for some people, but it has no basis in reality

Just musing... What would make a woman who rejects her female body and thinks it was an accident of birth that she wasn't born male decide to get pregnant in the first place?

Wrong body my arse.

SEX IS NOT GENDER.
SEX IS NOT GENDER.
SEX IS NOT GENDER.
SEX IS NOT GENDER.

In revisionist biology shall we start talking about people born with the wrong hands for their bodies? Or the wrong brains for their bodies?

The Equality Act protects sex as a protected class and term.

What would make a woman who rejects her female body and thinks it was an accident of birth that she wasn't born male decide to get pregnant in the first place?

Good question

It is impossible to be born in the wrong body. That is a science fiction story and naught to do with material reality.
Has anyone noticed that trans identified males "transwomen" make the news for sports, business, and politics, while trans identified females "transmen" make the news for having babies? That is misogyny!

What would make a woman who rejects her female body and thinks it was an accident of birth that she wasn't born male decide to get pregnant in the first place?

Totally anecdotal.

I'm close to a Mother who is gay.
Basically throughout her teenage years she was bullied. Horribly.
Denied being gay and instead identified as Male.

Eventually fell in love with a woman who adores her, accepted her.
With age, maturity and the security of a civil partnership they decided to have a baby.
She got pregnant was (sort of) still 'going as' a man.
During pregnancy embraced her womanly self. Had a daughter. Became a woman.

I don't get any of it tbh but she's now a happy, fulfilled woman.
Married to another woman, raising a daughter.
Everyone pretends she was never a 'boy'.

It all confuses the shit out of me.

This doc was interesting, on YouTube (an example of trans identifying women having a baby together, while identifying as ‘dads’). Very difficult to hold those two self images together I’d have thought. The doc makes it clear that a lot of pressure is on NHS maternity services to adopt the trans agenda and language, which I would say would be a massive disservice to most women. IMO it’s OK to be respectful of someone’s chosen pronouns if they are also respectful of everyone else’s labels (eg I will never accept cis) but that’s as far as a women-focused maternity service should go as far as adapting. So eg making the default descriptors of a maternity service to be “person’ or talking about ‘chest feeding’ etc unless to a TIF who you know prefers this speech, would be wrong, in denying of other (most) women’s reality.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3139511-Sex-map-of-Britain-transgender-dads

How many pregnant transmen are there?
Giving birth was very much something I did as a woman. If hate all language to become "inclusive' around childbirth as for me it was important to recognise it was something women do and support as a woman from other women who had done it etc.

And breastfeeding not chestfeeding . Fine to change terminology for the fee that need it but to bulldoze over the rest of us seems so very wrong.

It feels like erasing our womanhood completely.

I totally agree. It's breast feeding, women who get pregnant. But if you're a TIF then it should be written in your file, together with the pronouns you want used.

This could be managed similarly to how pregnant women are asked about rape/sexual assault. If they answer yes it's put on their file, because it's important for those treating them to know.

Maternity services do need to be sensitive to the needs and mental health of transmen - ie femininity-rejecting women who are of course going to get pregnant from time to time (sometimes by accident and sometimes intended - many transmen may identify as gay and be in a relationship with a man or if they identify as heterosexual they may be in a relationship with a transwoman with a fully functional sperm-producing ladydick so plenty of opportunities). If they don't want to be called mum or have their biological organs described in terms they find distressing then it is right and proper for the professionals supporting those individuals to adapt the language used in their presence.

It is not at all appropriate or right - but would be erasing and misogynistic - for that adapted language to be used for every woman who is having a baby.

I work in maternity and we had a hand maiden approach us recently about our TERF leaflets which dared mention the word “woman”. She was firmly told to go away.

Midwives are normally quite good st the feminism/sticking up for women thing and I’m surprised you’ve encountered some who aren’t. Hope you manage to educate them.

If a male identifying woman needed our services I would of course be happy to call him by whatever name he wants and use the pronouns he wanted. But I’m not re writing our leaflets which are valid for (currently) 100% of our service users. I’m not erasing women.

You could point out that there is a growing trend to centre trans people in all female centred care services.

While trans people are a tiny minority many female focused organisations are being pressured to deny the existence of their own biology and being told that naming female biology is transphobic.

Eg chest feeding, pregnant people.

Just point it out. Say you are raising the issue.

This video exposes what is going on in American Doula training. One person was kicked out for challenging female erasure even though she didn't break any official rules.

I’ve now sent her a link to some resources but basically she now thinks I’m an evil bigot. Arrrgh! This is beyond awkward

It's because she has no idea what's going on. It would sound quite neurotic to the blissfully unaware to bring up trans people as something to be bothered about, who in her mind are poor vulnerable dysphoric people just trying to get by in life.
She likely totally clueless that it's a whole movement that includes Riley, Danielle, and a bunch of MRAs.
It's why on first encounter what you said... sadly... actually does seem bigoted and irrational. She needs to peak.
Don't be ashamed, you have a genuine cause for concern!