Children being read stories by Drag Queens on World Book Day

[AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth]

One of whom refers to himself as "Bristol’s Resident Slag".

WTF now?

www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/parents-anger-over-drag-queens-1254111

You're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm not saying that the performers would do an adult performance as they would do in a nightclub. I'm saying that looking like hypersexualised caricatures of feminine women is not appropriate for adults in a school. Do you think that's mad as well?

Will there be white men in blackface to promote tolerance of race?

I'm saying they don't look hypersexualised. At the one I went to there was lots of big hair and makeup but absolutely no cleavage / leg / bum on show. They were wearing dresses that fully covered them, no pornstar heels or fishnets or anything. They were just really extravagant, fun costumes. Maybe you think makeup is inherently sexual but given that it's a tool used by everyone from teenage girls to prime ministers I'd disagree with you.

Perhaps they should edit their photos on Facebook to remove all the ones where they are wearing pornstar shoes, legs on show and so on.

And once again, you had the choice to go to the library, you were with your child. At school, being told that there is no choice, and if you don't like it you're intolerant? Not the same.

upsideup
Its an art or an expression of creativity and identity and not about being a woman at all
So it's just performance art and the fact that drag queens look like absurd parodies of women is just coincidental?

Drag rubbishes gender stereotypes, the idea that wearing makeup is for girls or that wearing a dress makes you any less a boy.
But drag queens don't look like men wearing makeup and dresses, they look like caricatures of women. If they were just men in makeup and dresses, they wouldn't need the fake breasts, and they'd look more like David Bowie in the 70s or Boy George in the 80s.

But what is their relevance to world book day?

Assassinated - you have the choice to remove your child from that situation. You just don't want to accept the consequences (the unauthorised absence). But nothing you've said has justified why you think you should be given special treatment compared to any other parent who disagrees with what a school is teaching for any reason and wants their child to skip an activity.

I would remove my child and I would accept the consequences of an unauthorised absence. Luckily I don't give a shit about that, and could afford any fine.

It's misogynistic and inappropriate, it's nothing to do with world book day, it doesn't promote tolerance or inclusivity as it reinforces sex-based stereotypes. It's one individual head teacher's poor decision to do this, as a compulsory part of the school day. Perhaps you think that head teachers can never make mistakes and that parents have no right to point out where there are issues? We should just put up and shut up, no debate, right?

But what is their relevance to world book day? good question.

But nothing you've said has justified why you think you should be given special treatment compared to any other parent who disagrees with what a school is teaching for any reason and wants their child to skip an activity

Assassinated has given a strongly worded case to show her objections to drag acts by her ethical and philosophicl view point. The drag acts are actors- being a drag queen or an actor is not a protected characteristic so I think she has every right to withdraw her child from this. Drag acts have nothing to do with diversity or inclusivity.

What do you think this is if not a debate...? Do you think that people disagreeing with you is the same as silencing you?

By all means, if you think this is a mistake on the school's part then start a petition or complain to the board of governors or the council, or arrange a protest at the school gates with other parents. No one is stopping you from doing those things. You don't have to 'put up or shut up'. But not everyone will agree with you, and you might not win. That doesn't mean there isn't a debate! Part of living in a democracy involved you not always getting your way...

No, I don't think that disagreeing is the same as no debate. I think that posters who accuse those who object of being intolerant are attempting to stifle debate though.

I don't see how. If a person believes a particular attitude or belief is intolerant, they're entitled to say so. the person accused of intolerance might not like to hear it but that's part and parcel of a debate. Not everything you hear will be to your liking.

Fair enough, if a debate about the appropriateness is acceptable to those who accuse others of intolerance.

Do you think that thinking this is inappropriate for school is intolerant, or just a difference of opinion @DietCokeGirrrrrl?

What's it got to do with books?

Are there firefighters reading books? Aeronautical engineers?
Town planners?

No, just men with enormous great comedy breasts. The headteacher is a virtue signalling fool.

"Drag acts have nothing to do with diversity or inclusivity."

Lass, thank you.

And really, that's about it really.

Personally I quite like the ultra glamourous versions but drag acts are not oppressed. Drag performers are not trans; they are not even necessarily homosexual. Drag acts are actors.

You could equally well have mime artists or Kabuki actors or Chinese Opera performers or Morris dancers or mummers. All of these would be more suitable for a performance for older children. None of them have much or anything to do with diversity or inclusivity.

As CertainHalfDesertedStreets says you could have firefighters in uniform or police or soldiers (particularly say those from Scottish regiments in full dress uniform!)

Or you could have Goths or travelling people , whether traditional gypsy / Romany or Scottish tinker or New Age travellers (if the latter still exist)

Or people with Down's syndrome or Thalidomide victims - groups who actually are discriminated against.

I totally agree with Lass. It would be much much better to have a range of parents from different backgrounds come in and read stories to children. I think that there could perhaps be some particular value in inviting men who are perceived as having macho roles like firemen or soldiers to read emotional stories about love, caring and loss (given that most children at school are likely to be read to frequently by women). Drag queens I see no value in at all. Personally like other posters here I find virtually all performances with men impersonating women really objectionable. Horribly stereotyped and sexist and totally unfunny in the main. Also it's not exactly unmainsteam is it? It's been a staple of comedy for ages and it's very rarely done in a way that's even interesting.

dd and I watched a lot of the iceskating program at the olympics. There were lots of men in sparkly beautiful outfits moving in elegant and incredibly skillful ways. To me that is the sort of performance that shows boys and girls that men can present in different ways and be lauded and not laughed at.

"Drag Queens are adult entertainers"

Not if they're in panto.

Entertainers come in to schools for a variety of events for pupils. Not all have to be earnest - fun is also important. What's being missed here is how there entertainers were doing in a classroom performance. What were the teachers who wanted them there seeking to achieve by a session of that style? Were those aims met?

Oh and just to say that I acknowledge that other people like drag in it's varied forms and that's fine. Some may take a lot of time and effort and some performers may be respectful toward women. If there are important messages about how society treats women hidden in drag I'd just much rather women were the ones making the point than men pretending to be women or even men pretending they are not pretending to be women.

dd and I watched a lot of the iceskating program at the olympics. There were lots of men in sparkly beautiful outfits moving in elegant and incredibly skillful ways. To me that is the sort of performance that shows boys and girls that men can present in different ways and be lauded and not laughed at

Great point. I agree.

This in-depth analysis of whether or not drag is misogynistic is very interesting.

It's been talked about several times on here, before.

I guess it would depend on what specific act you have watched.

Because there's no doubt that some drag acts are misogynistic.

But I can see the high end glamour, being quite appealing.

And I can also totally see how it's a stereotype.

And that's always the problem with stereotypes. Intrinsically, they're not bad. Taken on an individual level.

It's when you apply them, wholesale, and have an expectation based on them, that the problems start.

However. Drag acts are an adult niche entertainment.

People don't take their children to drag queen bars.

So you are already relying on a sanitised version. And a message, that is not the same message you get in a drag queen bar/act. And with names like beaver and slag and popping cherry, I personally would not be happy to place my faith in the marvellous, friendly altruism that people are being expected to buy into.

Especially as you are being given no choice.

But that's not the whole of it.

This group have specifically said they are teaching about hate crime. It's directly linked to transgenderism. Drag acts are not a protected characteristic.

They are not representative of any groups that are.

The people who are saying it's just fun, it's a bit of sparkles, how do you think grooming works? Or indoctrination?

But if you are finding that a bit of a leap, which you might well, let me introduce you to Lactavia. An eight-year-old boy drag act. His name is a play on lactation.

The sinister part to this is that, when he says if your parents disagree, get new parents, it's meant to be cute and funny and progressive.

The whole marketing of this child as a drag queen is meant to be progressive. You are meant to feel that if you disagree you are behind the times, a bit of a prude.

And you may well feel, as the parent, you will ultimately have the influence over your child that you want. That you can temper anything dodgy they learn, with sound commonsense.

Well good luck with that. When we are on the brink of deciding that biological sex doesn't exist and that you're a weird, old-fashioned prig if you don't agree.

This programme about 'the fabulous Lactavia' is aimed children, by the way.

Thanks Datun

You put it so much more eloquently than I could, certainly at the moment, because I am close to foaming at the mouth at the latest implication that I am some kind of a prude for not wanting my children exposed to adult entertainment and being told it's the same as panto. It bloody isn't. And even if it was, I have the choice to take my children to a panto.

According to some posters above, I have a choice to not send my child to school when drag acts are there. And this is 'progressive?

Fuck That.

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth

I'm watching this thread unfold with a kind of horrid fascination.

Your fear, anger and frustration are instantly recognisable to me.

And I can see other posters' reaction, and recognise their viewpoint immediately, too.

And I know the difference. It's how exposed you are to, and how much experience you have had of, the creeping and insidious remarketing of the word progressive.

It's all tied up with things like the push to lower the age of puberty blockers for children. Making assumptions about their competence and say over their own bodies at 8, 9, 10. Their say. Not their parents.

The scandalously one-sided dogma that is being disseminated into primary and secondary schools. Telling school-age lesbians that sometimes lesbians like blowjobs.

And if your child comes out as trans and they don't want you to know, you won't be told. And if you disagree, the local authority can be called.

Teen Vogue writing articles promoting anal sex. Calling girls non-prostate owners and writing the clitoris (and therefore their pleasure) out of the entire narrative.

Telling young girls that a man's right to their intimate spaces trumps theirs to privacy.

And now middle-aged men with names like beaver and slag being considered an authority on how to instruct our daughters (and sons) in 'inclusivity'.

And any dissent, both on here, at the school and, increasingly society at large, is viewed as negative and actively discouraged.

I don't understand how anyone can repeatedly read the words that women/children need to be 're-educated', without a chill running down their spine.

Thank you Datun.

I think your posts keep me sane sometimes

The 'progressive' thing is really insidious. I am beyond fucking furious at the implication that parents should limit their children's education so that drag artists have their right to perform in front of children indulged. WTF?

And thanks for reminding me of all the incidents above which are part of a growing culture to groom children into early sexuality, to stop them having boundaries, to muddy the waters of consent.

It is chilling. It is horrifying

I think that drag is sexist. Don't like panto dames either. I would want to know a lot more about this group and their books allowing my DC to participate.

Surely the best way for this headmaster -a man in authority- to break down sexist stereotypes would be for him to do it himself. Occasionally wear something pink and sparkly, high heels, make up and go about his business as normal with no further comment. It's likely to be way more effective than metaphorically screaming 'Look at these unusual GNC men, children!!' by bringing in a special group.

I wonder why this hasn't occurred to him.