'Women' in sport - don't doubt it isn't happening...

[lostlemon]

I think this shows just how 'easy' it is going to be for men to take over womens sport unless something changes fast.

Mountain Biking: Lack of stand down period for transgender rider causes confusion for field

Given NZ is such a small country it seems to be leading the field in TIMs in womens sport with Laurel Hubbard already competing.

I am hoping that as this happens more and more there will be some push back from women and things will change but I'm wondering what it will take given this is justified by saying they are following governing body rules.

"Sportswomen do it without cheating is no use". Because transwomen are women don't you know, and they are competing within the rules [cynical]

Here is a very interesting article about cycling Gillian Bearden thinks it's "fair" that transwomen should lower their testosterone levels; Rachel McKinnon thinks it's unfair and that they should be able to compete with their natural testosterone levels - so 100% male, physically and hormonally, but fair because they think they are women [baffled]

I mean, I don't agree with either, but one is even more ridiculous than the other.

And while trying to find out who exactly is on the IOC committee talking about this (I can't even find a list of names, much less work out who is who), I also came across this Surprise surprise, Joanna Harper, the medical physicist who advised the IOC on its trans policy is ... guess what ... drumroll please ... a TiM.

You couldn't make it up.

Maryz That article is supposed to be supportive of trans people competing as women, but the footballer is a clear 8" taller than the women players.

And Laurel Hubbard is on the NZ weightlifting team for the Commonwealth Games. The slope is getting slipperyer

I sort of hope she wins. In fact I hope that a TiM wins the 100m in Tokyo. Because that's the only way the general public will believe it's happening.

Were there any TiMs competing in the Winter Olympics does anyone know?

Apparently not, or at least not openly.

www.hrc.org/blog/meet-the-openly-lgbtq-athletes-headed-to-the-winter-olympics-in-pyeongchang

"McKinnon believes subjecting trans women to testosterone blocking violates their human rights."

I actually had to click on Mary's link to see if it was true. It's true. This person is actually arguing this.

www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2018/01/11/these-transgender-cyclists-have-olympian-disagreement-how-define-fairness/995434001/

I like how the goalposts keep being shifted in this argument. First it was "TW must be fully transitioned [yeah, I know, what does that even men?]" then it was "They need to have T levels that are the same as an actual woman," then it was "They need to have T levels that are below this level here [which is far higher than that of an actual woman]" and now it seems like the cutting edge is to argue that someone who hasn't even lowered their testosterone levels should be eligible to compete in the women's section?

I'm a frog and I'm starting to feel like this saucepan's contents are getting a little too hot right now.

Maybe we'll end up having to categorize XX chromosomes as a medical disability and then put an XX-only category in the Paralympics? I'm being sort of serious, actually.

Rachel McKinnon sounds like a treat doesn't she?

“This is bigger than sports and it’s about human rights,” McKinnon says. “By catering to cisgender people’s views, that furthers transgender people’s oppression. When it comes to extending rights to a minority population, why would we ask the majority? I bet a lot of white people were pissed off when we desegregated sports racially and allowed black people. But they had to deal with it.”

Me me me me fuck women's sports they don't matter anyway me me me cisgender blah blah me me me appropriation of black people's struggles which are a completely different situation blah blah me me me

THe women/girls are going to have to boycott- not enter, just stand there and not run - whatever. I’d love to hear what big nsme sports women are saying about this - they must be talking about it. One UK athlete has touched on it on TV but held back - i felt there was a lot more she wanted to say. New a Zealand has really went down in my estimation for seeming to smugly embrace this. Though plenty of views against when you read the comments on the articles.

Maybe we'll end up having to categorize XX chromosomes as a medical disability and then put an XX-only category in the Paralympics? I'm being sort of serious, actually.

I’m dure i read recently that eimrn competing in the Olympics had to be tested to prove they were women. Possibly due to the USSR and East Germany big manly women athletes.

Op the link in the op isn't working.

The link works for me.

Read Maryz article.

Joanna Harper is being quite disingenuous in their need to push TW having no advantage. The “yes males are often taller but there are some really tall women playing basketball - gotcha - what about that eh, eh? Pfft! I’ve followed Natalie on twitter and they seem like nice and generally aware person but I can’t agree on their view of pushing more TW into women’s sport. It’s not about Natalie being sble to play Sunday league football in the 7th division with their mates before heading to the pub - it’s the overall fairness and effect this will have for women and girls.

And just because a TW loses strength and speed - still doesn’t mean their male biology hasn’t given them some kind of advantage - hello Gabrielle Ludwig, Hannah Mouncey and Lauren Hubbard.

As for the rugby playing TW who got concussed - do we have any stats on any injuries they might have caused for the women players? And saying a TW would hold back out of fear of hurting a female competitor - did Fallon Fox get that memo?

Again all it seems to come down to is - “but they’re not as fast and as strong as they were as a man.” So fucking what - what does that prove.

The problem with the other women not competing is that they have spent years and years preparing. The only way this would work I think is that they all said they weren't competing or perhaps refuse to take their medals. The big issue will come when these TIMs start taking the world and olympic records as it will be nigh on impossible for women to get them back. This has to be stopped before that happens.

The difficulty also is that this is affecting individual sports that all have their own bodies so starting bottom up will be difficult.

I don't know what the answer is but this really does make me mad :-(

They do not lose their larger heart, denser bone, narrower pelvis, larger VO2 max.

The argument that there are also tall women is fucked beyond belief. It's absolutely disgusting.

Sorry/not sorry for bumping but just wondering. I don't 'do' sport by the way.

Are there any men who previously were top of their leagues/trees/game [and winning against men] who have transitioned, or is it mostly men who didn't make it as a man to the top of their leagues/trees/game?

I was just watching a local cyclist who won today and wondered this.

There is only one TIM in the entire school at Cromwell High school in conneticut, Andraya Yearwood, a slower than last place malevery runner, but bang. That's the chance for first place in both the 100m and 200m gone for every single girl at that school.

Just bumping this thread as I've just read that there is now another biological male competing as a girl in another school.in Connecticut. At a recent competition this person, Terry miller, finished 1st and andraya yearwood finished 2nd in the girls 100m. So the first 2 places taken by males. the girls who would have won or placed in a fair competition must be livid. This is completely unfair

article here

Like someone else on here said before, it's Women's Sport - not the B grade for those who can't quite hack it. If you're not female then you can't compete. Could it be any more simple.

I’m feeling so cross about this. I’m really overweight at the moment and thought about joining a sport but wanted something fun. So I looked a roller derby and the woman’s team include trans woman. I just wanted to do something for me. With people that might get how self conscious and embarrassed I feel about myself. But I can’t join in now as I don’t want to share a change room with a man.

Roller derby was colonised by TiMs several years ago. Such a shame because roller derby used to be so unapologetically female. It was awesome.