Mermaids has hit the headlines.

[Triliteration]

Reports in both Daily Mail and Telegraph regarding a member of Mermaids calling the police over a midgendered pupil.

Surely the tide will begin to turn on this organisation. They are involved with schools and all kinds of organisations including the NHS, but I think their irrationality and bias is about to hit the mainstream.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2018/02/23/teacher-accused-misgendering-child-told-police-committed-hate/

I'd imagine that the teacher will have been advised by their union not to say anything.

It was bullying, no contest. The teacher in question had apparently repeatedly misgendered the child, in a manner calculated to cause distress & possible derision from other pupils.

However, this could have been dealt with by following the school's disciplinary policy, on the grounds of harassment. Mermaids could, no doubt, have assisted them with escalating the complaint when it was not asnwered correctly when they first submitted it to the school - I am sure they are well versed in the intricacies of the law in this respect. The police did not need to be involved.

I think this is indicative of the attitude of the vocal extremist minority of GRAs who are, sadly, leading the debate at present. I am glad it's been picked up by some of the national mainstream press.

We don't know whether this was bullying as we don't have the teacher's version of events.

Wow Terfy is that really true? Do you have a source, or know where someone could find details?

This is precisely what can happen in Canada, though. Two years in prison for refusing to say that 2+2=5. A "liberal" country, my arse.

Wow Terfy is that really true? Do you have a source, or know where someone could find details?

If that is true then what is happening in Canada is not freedom of speech by a long shot. A teacher in a democracy should, sensitively and appropriately, be able to - and in fact be actively enabled and encouraged to - share that different people have different beliefs, and not be made to say they believe something they don't, or to teach only one perspective. If a child is unable to cope with this when done reasonably, that child needs specialist support.

If the teacher behaved in this way, then that is unacceptable. But Mermaids have a habit of being untruthful to further their agenda.

What is a GRA?

If it turns out that mermaids have pimped the truth (as apparently can be their M.O) , then I will 100% change my viewpoint, but in the absence of another side, my current view is based only on the info presented and my argument is based on that perspective alone.

Whatever it was, the police should never have been called!

It's not a hate crime. A hate crime is an aggravating factor in an actual crime.

An internal discipline is all that is needed.

Not the bloody police.

I completely agree if thr teacher is bullying a child about their gender identity they should be dealt with. Immediately.

But knowing how political mermaids are, I see this as a deliberate attempt to force an issue and make other people petrified of going against the doctrine.

If the teacher was acting in the way that Mermaids say (which I doubt as as an organisation they have a rather loose definition of facts) then that teacher was bullying the child and should be disciplined by the school.

However we are so conditioned to correctly use he for males and she for females that I imagine many of us would find it hard to not persistently misgender a child.

I also find it extremely alarming that organisations like Mermaids are trying to use the police and the law to force people to think and speak things which are untrue and have no basis in fact.

“Whatever it was, the police should never have been called!”

Agreed Datun

Yah, I don't think I'm going to believe Susie Green, the woman who dragged her poor boy off to Thailand or whereabouts to get his bits lopped off.

I also think that Mermaids are trying to force the issue. But they may have overplayed their hand and peaktransed people instead,judging by those Telegraph comments

But they may have overplayed their hand and peaktransed people instead,judging by those Telegraph comments

If you think they're bad, take a look at the mail online!

Yeah that’s why Morgane whatserchops was sleuthing all over Twitter to get someone to grass up the woman with the placard saying penis = male. Transwomen are not women. Can’t remember what it actually said. Morgane wanted the woman ID’ed and charged. Bill C-16 coming your way...

I disagree vehemently with any teacher treating a student in a disrespectful way, but I don’t know enough about this situation to comment. There are far better ways to deal with bullying teachers than calling the cops just to highlight an ideology. That doesn’t protect the child concerned. That draws more attention to a child already struggling and is just using them as a poster child for your cause, irrespective of any potential outing and harm it will cause. If Mermaid’s cause is to support that child, it spectacularly backfired. But we all know it wasn’t. This is about ideology, not preventing further harm to a vulnerable pupil.

Icky, mermaids. Icky.

Will do, thanks Datun.

They have been reporting people to the police for things they object to on twitter too. I think they are getting a bit jittery.

I find this odd “if you don’t want to be called a girl then don’t look like one” Does that mean the confused child was calling herself a boy while looking like a traditional female? Long hair, make up, etc. If so it just sounds like attention seeking behaviour. My 15yr old niece demands to be called a boy, while still going on the female members of the family nights out. Cake and eat it springs to mind.

Ouchbirthhurted - here is a report on the passing of Bill C-16 in Canada. I'm afraid I don't know enough about the north American media landscape to be able to quickly detect this newspaper's bias, but there are plenty more in a similar vein that Google throws up:

dailycaller.com/2017/06/16/canada-passes-law-criminalizing-use-of-wrong-gender-pronouns/

It doesn't mention the possible length of prison sentence - the 2-years stuck in my mind from something another poster on here said a few weeks ago.

I've seen an interview with Canadian academic Jordan Peterson where he and the interviewer acknowledge that what he is saying is illegal (he questions the notion of gender). Canadian Universities are trying to prevent academics from even discussing pronoun use, calling such discussions "toxic" and insisting that lesson plans of transgressors are officially sanctioned:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42070202

These are the institutions that have a statutory obligation to uphold freedom of speech.

OuchBirthHurted

GRA - Gender Rights Activist.

It's not a hate crime. A hate crime is an aggravating factor in an actual crime.

Thank you, Datun! When Mermaids throw this shit around, it's so annoying.

There is no such thing in the UK as a standalone "hate crime" in and of itself. If you commit a crime and your motivation is hatred of a protected group, then that's an aggravating factor and the crime can be classified as a) the actual crime and b) the actual crime + hate.

You can't commit a hate crime if there is no crime to attach it to.

If you assault a bloke because he snogged your girlfriend - not hate crime.

If you assault a bloke who is black because you are racist - hate crime.

Under no circumstances should a teacher openly ridicule a child for any characteristic, whether it's gender or something else. Under no circumstances should a teacher bully a child, whether it's about gender or anything else.

As to pronoun use in schools - case by case basis, with the child, teachers and parents coming to a mutual and negotiated agreement. Schools shouldn't be validating a trans identity in a pupil without the knowledge of parents, for example.

I also find it extremely alarming that organisations like Mermaids are trying to use the police and the law to force people to think and speak things which are untrue and have no basis in fact.

This deeply concerns me too. This goes deeply to the heart of what it means to live in a free country.

And when many believe that some of the beliefs and approaches taken by charities such as Mermaids are potentially leading or damaging, and when they have direct access to the classroom in many cases. And when coercive tactics are being used to try to shut this debate down in other ways. It is critically important to be able to openly debate concerns about children's welfare.

Hmmm, not sure here. Teachers should not ridicule students.

But, we don’t have the teachers version and I’m not sure we can condemn without it.

We had a trans pupil at my school. We worked with him to help facilitate his transition. But only after he had started counselling, seen a doctor and given us a letter of intent. He was furious about this. He wanted to wear a skirt (rolled up to the bum cheeks), change with the girls and change his name instantly.

He now trashes the name of the school and the two heads of year who gave him a lot of help all over the Internet. These are the people who helped him learn to do his make up and mentored him with great sensitivity. I have never seen something so ungrateful.

So I take stories like this with a pinch of salt.

There are lots of people out there who share some of the gender critical ideas voiced here but are coming from VERY different philosophical viewpoints.

We should be very careful not to align ourselves with arseholes just because we superficially agree about one thing. It leaves us very open to the 'TERFS are conservative' narrative and it helps arseholes.

I agree with much that you say @LadyMcLadyCrisps. It's unwise to have a default position that if something's been said by Mermaids, then it must be wrong. That's a faith position. It's better to examine critically what they say. We can be confident they'll be wrong often enough.

Obviously, calling the police was nuts.

Nauticant, an organisation that OPENLY encourages minors to sneak around behind their parents back and be counseled and "get a glitter family" with adult males dressed like porn versions in women should be mistrusted with every inch of your fibre.

They are dangerous to children and should not be allowed anywhere near them.