I am about to ID as a man

[YesItsADebate]

In 1.5 hours, I will be identifying as a gay man who does not conform with male gender stereotypes. I expect my local leisure facility to comply with the Swim England guidelines and agree that I am entitled to access the men-only swimming sessions, the male showers and toilets and to wear swimming trunks. I also expect them to re-educate any other man who objects to any of the above.

In other words, I have a meeting with the local swimming pool at 10 to see whether or not I’ll be resorting to topless swimming and public nudity tonight in an effort to prove my point that the Swim England guidelines are ridiculous

Wish me luck!

You could of course have;

I SELF ID AS A MAN
THESE ARE MANLY TITS
MY VAGINA IS MALE

But not quite as catchy ;-)

Oh good grief.
I've just nipped over to the other thread, and it's chockablock with people saying that we need to be very careful and considerate, and not embarrass men peacefully eating their bacon butties/stare at them in the pool/ upset boys who might understandably have hangups.

It's all very laudable.

But why doesn't it work the other way round??

Why aren't trans-identifying men doing their utmost to be sure they never, even accidentally, embarrass or upset women?

To me seems you're just making innocent peoples lives hell and seem to be enjoying it. Also find it interesting so many supposedly against self ID are for it when its to male men feel uneasy and in the same situation would be beimg called a cunt and worse

find it interesting so many supposedly against self ID are for it when its to male men feel uneasy and in the same situation would be beimg called a cunt and worse

I think there is a serious gap in your comprehension here. Either that or you have a liking for straw men.

I am an innocent woman who feels sick at the thought of sharing a changing room with a male bodied person. How do you suggest we prove a point?

More conditioning of women to put up and shut up.

I think a simple

TRANSMEN ARE MEN

could work?

So your solution to a potential problem you may face in the future is to do the exact same to men that are more than likely nothing to do with your issue?

I don't think so, Teddy. I think the aim is to shine a light on the possible unintended consequences of these guidelines and thus avoid embarrassment for men OR women later.

Did the point ruffle your hair as it whizzed past, FrustratedTeddyLamp?

This is a way of ILLUMINATING the absurdity of self ID by demonstrating, to the letter, exactly how it works in practice.

Those that are pro self ID MUST accept this scenario else be crashing hypocrites.
And if the OPs scenario is unacceptable, then establishments must start listening to women and invoking the same sex exemptions which already exist.

If that’s the scope of your understanding then I’m not sure we’re actually going to be able to explain the nuances of the situation to you. And as such you probably wouldn’t be able to understand the very obvious point of the exercise.

I think I AM A MAN is much more effective at getting the point across. Otherwise people will just make it about ‘transphobia’. It has to clearly and quickly illustrate the absurdity of the whole thing, which a self-ID t shirt does quite brilliantly.

How about “I feel, therefore I am”?

Holger Great point. This isn’t about mocking TRA’s, it’s about painting out how awful changes in law would be.

Oh I agree with you entirely FrustratedTeddyLamp. Much nicer to be polite. I assume you'll be writing the same post on the MRA forums of course? Or is it just women you tell off?

toomanytolist I'm another person who has immense sympathy for your child. It's hard enough negotiating adolescence without throwing something like dysphoria into the mix. No one on here would ridicule your son.

But for me, just because people like your child struggle with their bodies, doesn't mean that society should be dismantled. I'd be absolutely horrified by sharing a changing room with a man. I don't generally swim because of having a condition which only affects females which has changed the way my body looks - it's just too difficult. But I am 100% sure I would never go again if i wasn't safe to change in private and pick a female only session. I would have safety concerns about sharing with a male too, as would lots of other women. Your child's difficulties don't trump that. I support the idea of a 3rd space though, so trans people can change in peace.

Fantastic, OP!

Love #ManFriday too.

Is one allowed to Self id as male on alternative days...like cities have smoke free days lol I dont fancy being a fulltime asshole jk

Can I wear a beard? Always fancied one. Well done op!

I’m in London. I’m also over 40, have BFd 4 DCs and haven’t been arsed to do anything to my muff fluff since baby No 2.

I’m definitely up for naked invasion of manspace.

Discussion this is wonderful.
Your name will be remembered.

Fabulous and fascinating thread. I think you've maybe missed a word off the T Shirts though, shouldn't they say 'I am a man today' ?

I don't think so, Teddy. I think the aim is to shine a light on the possible unintended consequences of these guidelines and thus avoid embarrassment for men OR women later.

Of course and i think the aims admirable, but itll still potentially embarrass innocent people.

Worita im not actually on many other websites, ive been accused of being a fan of strawman argumentsnjust posts before so it seems kinda ironic that it seems youre inferring that because im against this one excercise i must be an MRA or the like. Especially when this is more about trans people than men

I get the point of the excercise, i just dont agree with the actual execution affecting innocent people, and i think there is a blinkered support of this due to the big support of anti self ID ( that i actually support - the not self IDing bit i mean), and the somewhat stupidity of the situation that people arent considering the potential impact on the others there, and if it were a womens swim class the people supporting would be outraged and indeed have been due to similar events.

I didn't say you were an MRA, I asked if you would tell them to stop being troublesome too.

For me, a few women potentially embarrassing some men and highlighting an issues that's affecting us, instead of the usual everyday reality of some men threatening and scaring women, doesn't seem like a big problem. I just don't think telling women to behave nicely is the answer.

teddy,
You say you understand, but you are still slightly missing the point, I think.

This is about men too. Women complaining about their spaces being invaded are being silenced and ignored, so to be heard we need men to understand the implications for them too - and there are some!

Men are listened to, sadly, more than women are. Until they are directly affected many will not be interesting in the issue at all - and until they are we are pissing in the wind (with our she-pees)