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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

WEP Article...

71 replies

Writersblock2 · 22/02/2018 23:43

They just posted this. How bloody dare they? To me this reads as “hey you women who don’t agree with us? The divide is YOUR fault!”.

And enough of this ‘cis’ crap!!

Thoughts?

www.catherinemayer.co.uk/single-post/2018/02/22/We-need-to-have-difficult-debates-We-need-to-find-better-ways-to-have-them

OP posts:
TheRagingGirl · 23/02/2018 08:41

Ms Mayer is American although raised mostly in the UK. So she does have a transAtlantic perspective, and from the liberal (US word for left-wingISH thinking) perspective. She’s still wrong about this though.

BigDeskBob · 23/02/2018 08:42

"In America, suffragists tried to win favour with segregationists in the South by claiming that white women, if given the vote, would use it to uphold white supremacy. At the last US election, a majority of white women did just that, to the detriment of all people of colour and pretty much everyone else, including those white women voters"

Are they saying white women can't be trusted to do the right thing, therefore their opinions shouldn't be listened to? I wonder if they are including MiT in their definition of 'white women'?

Boulshired · 23/02/2018 09:02

I cannot understand how she can talk about male violence whilst she believes that gender is interchangeable. If all male violence perpetrators announce they are female will the problem be female violence?

LangCleg · 23/02/2018 09:13

Honestly? I know there are a few founder members here, so sorry an' all, but WEP has always been useless.

I've spent the last years thinking they were useless because they refused to engage with economic policies. So they were never for the poor women adversely affected by austerity, for instance.

Now, they can't even bestir themselves to exclude people who aren't women! What on earth is the point of them? I saw someone say that a women's equality party without an objective definition of woman is "comedy genius". Bloody black comedy if you ask me.

Ereshkigal · 23/02/2018 09:20

And they won't be able to hang on to their anti sexual exploitation stance with the only supporter base they're going to end up with.

Forgeteverythingandremember · 23/02/2018 09:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Forgeteverythingandremember · 23/02/2018 09:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hackmum · 23/02/2018 09:34

It's always depressing to be patronised by someone who is stupider than you are. She really hasn't grasped the issue at all, has she?

ReluctantCamper · 23/02/2018 09:38

what egregious bullshit that article is. I had assumed the WEP was set up to address the oppression of women and girls.

Q: What is the basis of women's oppression?
A: Their biology (girls ain't subjected to FGM because they might want to wear lipstick)

Q: Do men who identify as women share the same biology as women?
A: No

*Q: what is an organisation set up to address the oppression of women doing prioritising the 'comfort' (Catherine's word from her article) of men who identify as women over the concerns of women?
A: I have no fucking idea

And just like that the WEP disappears in a puff of logic.

Fuck off Catherine Meyer. Fuck off Sophie Walker. Fuck off Fucking Sandi fucking Toksvig.

ReluctantCamper · 23/02/2018 09:40

I think that is the first time I have cursed in an MN post. I usually pride myself on my politeness.

Ereshkigal · 23/02/2018 09:44

It's always depressing to be patronised by someone who is stupider than you are. She really hasn't grasped the issue at all, has she?

Evergreen. Basically every argument you will ever have on social media with a trans ally.

Ereshkigal · 23/02/2018 09:46

Is this us being WEPxplained?

Love the non binary X ;) predict they will change to XEP any day now.

AngryAttackKittens · 23/02/2018 09:52

Yes, Catherine, we do indeed need to have some difficult conversations. Shame your party won't let members have them in case it hurts men's feelings.

EmpressOfJurisfiction · 23/02/2018 10:00

Am I right in thinking Mayer did one too? Or am I imagining that?

Mayer did do one too. It was as crap as any of the others and pretty much aimed at getting people to buy her book.

Ereshkigal · 23/02/2018 10:06

Thanks Empress!

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 23/02/2018 13:17

Ridiculous. As usual

Its not possible that people do not 'get it' IMO. Which means that they understand the problems and simply do not care, what such stupidness will do to the lives of women and girls. I am fast coming to the conclusion that anyone who supports self-ID is a raging misogynist. That may sound harsh, but I cannot see any other conclusion to come to.

ArcheryAnnie · 23/02/2018 15:00

I was depressed when WEP came on Mumsnet about how little they understood anything about political campaigning, and how much they expected to take us for granted. All that "we're listening!" and then they just bugger off on a webchat without actually answering the questions. It was a poor show then and it's a poor show now - they demonstrated that they thought they already knew everything they needed to know, and we were there for be the good little foot-soldiers. We all saw how that turned out.

And now, with this utter shitshow, they are dead in the water as a political party. I just searched for them on twitter and they have a tide of women going wtf? and a tide of sealioning men defending them. The sealioning men may have them, and welcome.

VaguelyAware · 23/02/2018 16:29

As far as I understand it, to qualify as transgender, one now simply has to state as much, i.e. that one feels that one identifies as the opposite gender all or part of the time. There is no requirement to undergo counselling, hormone therapy, medical intervention of any kind. Or in fact, even to dress as the opposite gender. Obviously this has not yet been enshrined in law... but with the political parties, swimming pools, schools etc getting "ahead of the law" it may as well be.

So, no bodily changes needed. Therefore, one can be entirely anatomically male, but identify as a woman. Or vice versa. (Or as gender neutral or fluid.)

So, I am disabled. For that reason (but also other reasons) I:

  • rarely if ever shave my legs,
  • have extremely short hair,
  • don't wear makeup or nail varnish,
  • don't remember when I last wore a skirt (probably several years ago),
  • don't wear high heels,
  • don't wear jewellery except my wedding ring & wristwatch.

I have, on multiple occasions, been mistaken for a teenaged boy.

I would like someone, anyone, to give me an objective description of what this "essential femaleness" actually involves. Because I know I am female. I have experienced period poverty, rape & the fear of resulting pregnancy, at least two miscarriages, one of which lasted a month; I bled through my work trousers & didn't dare take time off because I already have lots of time off because disabled. I have encountered problems with just about every method of birth control, one of which actually left me disabled. I endured a dreadful pregnancy, a 30-hour labour, the climax of which had me screaming at DH that they were going to "pull her head off", it truly felt like my insides were being dragged out as the midwife struggled to save my DD with forceps, despite the epidural. The PPH which was diagnosed almost too late & the terror of hearing DH's voice fading as it all went black.

And to tell me that some biological male knows thay they are a woman because they feel it? I'm absolutely in support of anyone presenting as masculine or feminine if that's how they feel. But no male can know how its feels to be a woman because no man will ever, can ever, experience any of that. Or any of the other numerous indignities, discriminatory practices, and various forms of violence that biological females are subjected to, worldwide, on the basis that they can potentially push a baby human out of their vagina.

Trigger warning - the following links contain extremely distressing content. I've hidden the exact titles of the last two as even they may be too distressing if some people don't wish to read them.

www.feministcurrent.com/2017/10/25/the-gentrification-of-womanhood/

Woman gang raped

Woman raped & left to bleed to death

ArcheryAnnie · 23/02/2018 16:52

There's an absolutely brilliant thread on twitter by @marstrina about this. It begins:

I find this a dismayingly dishonest framing of the events in question. The 'fight' was not stoked by the media, but started by WEP members; it resulted in a sacking, not debate; & the proceedings were secret, not open, democratic, or productive.

Allthecremeeggs · 23/02/2018 17:25

WEP just need to give it up as a bad job and go home. Let someone else start a party for actual women rather than this laughable shit show. They’ve fucked it up. They are beyond redemption. Time to call it a day.

LassWiADelicateAir · 23/02/2018 17:37

Are they saying white women can't be trusted to do the right thing, therefore their opinions shouldn't be listened to? I wonder if they are including MiT in their definition of 'white women'?

Yes they are. I found the comment about white American women chilling and offensive. These women might be women but they are not the right sort of women.

Is she really so stupid and smug not to realise there were complex and multiple reasons voters chose Trump?

VaguelyAware · 23/02/2018 17:57

Sometimes I really wish we had a like button on this site.
YY to ArcheryAnnie, Allthecremeeggs, & LassWiADelicateAir.

JaimesGoldenHand · 23/02/2018 18:47

FFS I was really hoping WEP would review their position on this and see how misogynistic their stance is - then I could have voted for them. The fucking irony of a Women's party throwing women under a bus. Angry

Geronimoleapinglizards · 23/02/2018 19:00

What a load of shit!

Honestly I hate how black women are used in articles talking about TIMs. It is appalling. Race and white supremacy shouldn't have been brought into this article.

Black woman are not a subset of women and they are the equivalent of women eiyh penises.

OddBoots · 23/02/2018 19:04

Oh how terrible that women think that a political party for women ought to look out for the interests of women. Whatever were we thinking!