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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

So my dd had a LGBT assembly this morning

57 replies

MrsFogi · 20/02/2018 22:38

and this evening asked me if I knew that if you felt you were in the wrong body you could take some pills when you are 16 and that would change your body to a boy's body.
Cue about an hour of her hearing my views on the subject. I am so sad that she already seems to be getting a very narrow view on transgender issues and horrified that she is of the view that she cannot challenge or question any of the teaching because she tells me she would be bullied for being transphobic.
I am beginning to fear that it is too late to stop this trans-juggernaut.
And before anyone asks - my dd is 100% clear that I have no problem if she wishes to live as a boy, is straight, lesbian or bisexual.

OP posts:
Gileswithachainsaw · 20/02/2018 22:45

Fuck sake.
My kids already know about men marrying men and women marrying women and don't care.

They also don't care who wears what.

But anyone who tries to tell them they can change their sex with pills will regret the day they met me...

TheCunkOfPhilomena · 20/02/2018 22:47

Ugh, that's just awful. Can I ask how old your DD is? And did you get any info beforehand to say the school were going to do this?

I think I'd be calling the school and asking them to email you with their reasoning behind this and sending them a copy of Transgender Trend's resource pack for schools.
www.transgendertrend.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Transgender-Trend-Resource-Pack-for-Schools.pdf

mummybear701 · 20/02/2018 22:49

Maybe the school already have transgender pupils and are trying to open their eyes to what it is and to have tolerance for such people. Or maybe she repeated stuff out of context, impossible to tell.

mummybear701 · 20/02/2018 22:56

We're in Scotland but DCs school have dismissed Transgender Trend as ill informed, badly referenced and misguided.

AssassinatedBeauty · 20/02/2018 22:59

Tolerance isn't about giving wildly inaccurate information. If children are coming away with this idea then it needs to be fed back so that however this topic is being presented can be improved.

Feeling you can't question due to fears of bullying is also not the take-away message this sort of talk should be giving.

AssassinatedBeauty · 20/02/2018 23:01

What do you think about the Transgendertrend guidance, @mummybear701? How do you know that the school has dismissed it - did they communicate that to parents?

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 20/02/2018 23:02

DCs school have dismissed Transgender Trend as ill informed, badly referenced and misguided

Really? Using those words? How did you hear of this pronouncement as a parent?

It only came out a few days ago. How weird that they have had time to review the guidance and then chose to speak with parents about it. I can't see my dcs school ever doing such a thing...

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 20/02/2018 23:03

X post Smile

MrsFogi · 20/02/2018 23:07

Oh yes - I have already emailed including link to that guidance. I'll await the reply before making an appointment.....

OP posts:
mummybear701 · 20/02/2018 23:10

Some parent showed it to head of year who quickly pointed out the flaws in the language and obvious bias, agreed by other SMT. The links to Autism and general social issues was particularly offensive. The only thing I have some agreement with is tackling gender stereotypes so a gender non conforming pupil doesn't immediately assume they are trans.

AssassinatedBeauty · 20/02/2018 23:16

And they communicated this to all parents as a result? Seems odd.

You can describe the content as having "obvious bias" if you also consider the stuff that comes from Mermaids et al as also having an obvious bias and flaws in language.

I don't know why you think the discussion of a connection to autism is offensive?

oldbirdy · 20/02/2018 23:16

mummybear how are the links to autism "offensive"? I work with autistic yp and am very concerned about the large numbers who are identifying as trans. I had none in 10 years until 5 years ago, now I am aware of quite a few (double figures). There needs to be more research about this phenomenon as it is of concern to many working with autistic yp. Of course that doesn't mean all trans yp are autistic, or all autistic yp are trans. But how is it offensive??

HairyBallTheorem · 20/02/2018 23:21

I don't know how anyone can look at the statistics coming out of the Tavistock (2000% increase in girls identifying as trans) and not think that social contagion/co-morbid mental health or developmental issues are at least worth looking at and researching. That 2000% increase hasn't come out of nowhere, and it would be irresponsible to assume that the only possible explanation in the frame was that these trans children were there all along but up until recently simply hadn't been given the support they needed to "come out."

donquixotedelamancha · 20/02/2018 23:22

The links to Autism and general social issues was particularly offensive.

Eh. It only has one line about autism:

Children and adolescents of both sexes on the autism spectrum also tend towards gender non-conformity and are over-represented at gender clinics.

Which, from my (limited) reading of research on this subject, is true. Certainly the document is much better referenced than most resources given to schools. The study they support the autism sentence with seems like a straight and well referenced literature review.

www.smr.jsexmed.org/article/S2050-0521(15)00004-9/fulltext

It's easy enough to follow back to the original research to get an idea of how valid the methodologies are.

link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10803-010-0935-9

tallwivglasses · 20/02/2018 23:33

Assembly. How appropriate.

mummybear701 · 20/02/2018 23:44

I agree the Autism connection needs properly researched, not described in a negative way. The pack just gives the impression transgender is some frivolous lifestyle choice or social pressure, not a medical condition that needs sensitivity.

mamaryllis · 20/02/2018 23:44

Well I guess mummybear's school felt very strongly that that one line was desperately offensive. Perhaps mummybear should have chosen her own words slightly more carefully, instead of leaping in to dismiss.

Perhaps you were thinking of a different leaflet mummybear? The imaginary one that recommends conversion therapy? Perhaps too much taking of LM's word as gospel? Or perhaps sharing LM's lack of reading comprehension?

mummybear701 · 20/02/2018 23:47

And this is where raising acceptance of gender non conformity could help as Autism typically leads to non conforming behavior in general. I'm obviously not explaining very well tonight.

thebewilderness · 21/02/2018 00:04

The schools are abusing their power over children and it is not going to end well for the children.

cista · 21/02/2018 00:13

How old is you daughter, op?

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 21/02/2018 07:54

There are a million leaflets out there for schools. Probably some produced by the EDL etc. Have your school reviewed all of them? If so can you let me know where they are getting the excessive funding for this massive waste of time? We hardly have time to review the stuff that we have to. And we don't even communicate that to parents, let alone guidance we have dismissed. We just use it.

I think someone might have an overactive imagination...

oldbirdy · 21/02/2018 09:00

mummybear you are exactly right. Autistic people - girls in particular - often are gender non conforming. That doesn't mean that they are "actually" the opposite sex; it means they are wonderful autistic girls. My concern is that from somewhere, these girls are getting the impression that they are "truly" men. When they never got that impression before the last few years.

Now it could be that their access to online information is revealing their true authentic selves to them and that transitioning socially makes them happier in every way. If that were the case, that's fine. My worry is that no one has researched it and if anyone says "hang on, maybe this isn't just about people correctly identifying their true self, but something to do with not fitting in or these girls seeking belonging somewhere, because they feel they don't do 'girl' correctly, coupled with black and white thinking (if I'm not A I must be B) and rigidity of thought'....then they are automatically a bigot or transphobic. So no research gets done. I'd love the reassurance of research that no harm is coming to these yp, and I'd love to live in a world where people who don't conform to gender stereotypes don't feel they need to adopt a different set of gender stereotypes instead of being able to just "be".
I don't see anything offensive in the materials at all, except that the organisation's name is inflammatory in its inference of a "trend", which instantly gets those who believe in trans ideology's backs up.

AngryAttackKittens · 21/02/2018 09:16

if I knew that if you felt you were in the wrong body you could take some pills when you are 16 and that would change your body to a boy's body.

Doing a brilliant job of explaining how artificial hormones work there, eh? Take these pills and you will magically sprout a set of balls and a penis, like pouring water on a Chia Pet!

BubbleAndSquark · 21/02/2018 09:24

Unsure of how old your DD is, but I would be going to speak to the school if they hadn't explained fully the side effects and operations also required.
And if they are too young to be knowing about that then they shouldn't be being fed the idea that you can 'just take some pills and change sex' as if its some casual decision.

Datun · 21/02/2018 10:18

mummybear701

The link between transitioning and autism is widely acknowledged. There are plenty of studies about it.

Children who are autistic sometimes do not recognise gendered signals. Which leads to gender nonconformity. Hence how it is over represented in the trans-community, because many children feel as though that must be the answer.

It is highly irresponsible to equate gender dysphoria with gender nonconformity.

And Transgendertrend recognises this.

They also recognise that sexual orientation is as much a protected characteristic as gender reassignment. As is sex.

Stephanie Davis Arai is only all about the children. All of them. Straight, gay, trans.

Trans literature that has been pushed by pressure groups is only about the trans. Which is falling foul of equality law.

When your literature says that sometimes lesbians like blowjobs, you are discriminating against the protected characteristic of sexual orientation. By claiming it's not based on sex.

The pressure group GIRES, who send literature into schools actually claim that transitioning will cure autism.

Anecdotally, young people who have been successfully treated, are often described as having no residual ASD [Autism Spectrum Disorder]. The symptoms have disappeared once the dysphoria has been treated.

gendertrender.wordpress.com/?s=GIRES&submit=Search

I have read transgendertrends guide. It is a masterclass of rationality and reason.

But, importantly, it takes into account all the protected characteristics under the law. Not just one of them.

Which is why trans-pressure groups are demanding people don't read it.

You should read it.