How to press Women’s Aid to NOT allow trans identified males to work there?

[DichordStasis]

To preface, I signed up to MN finally to talk about this issue as I feel it’s so critically important. I’ve been reading for years but only now bit the bullet and made an account.

For some context: I think revising the Gender Recognition Act to allow self-ID would be utterly disastrous for women. I’m sure I don’t need to convince most of you but this factsheet gives a good overview of the main harms that allowing males to self-identify as women poses to women and girls. I feel strongly that such a measure should be resisted at all costs.

I’m quite far left and dislike the Tories quite a lot. However, they are currently the ruling party and, IMO, it is exponentially more likely that they will back away from supporting changes to the GRA than Labour will. Most of the Tory base already disagrees with it, I’d wager. It was also likely that Justine Greening was starting to have cold feet before she was sacked.

Greening’s replacement as equalities chief Amber Rudd is being quite cautious in her statements regarding the GRA as well. In a recent (early Feb. 2018) interview Rudd said that she would look closely at the conclusion that Women’s Aid makes regarding whether or not to allow transgender identified males [TIMs for short] to work at women’s shelters and take her cues on how to proceed regarding amending the GRA to allow self-identification from that outcome. You can see her full comments here it’s at the bottom of the interview. Here’s a link discussing the situation at Women’s Aid regarding TIMs.

Therefore it seems like a very important and pressing matter to express to Women’s Aid just how awful a choice it would be to allow self-identified TIMs to work at the shelters. It sounds like IF Women’s Aid decides that TIMs aren’t allowed to work there, then the Tories will take a dimmer view of revising the GRA to include self-ID.

That said we really should be pressuring Women’s Aid to not allow TIMs to work there regardless since women and children in need of these shelters are, by definition, traumatized and vulnerable. Overwhelmingly they are there as a result of MALE violence. Not “people who identify as men’s” violence, MALE violence. This account from a Mumsnet poster about her experience as a young girl traumatized by male violence who developed an extreme fear of males is incredibly moving. I can’t see how any decent person could wish to inflict that kind of secondary trauma on a young child or her mother. They aren’t “bigots” for wanting to be away from people who are clearly male, as are the overwhelming majority of TIMs, they are victims of male abuse and deserve to have a space away from males to start the healing process, which Women’s Aid has historically been.

It must also be noted that TIMs are male and retain male patterns of criminality. This data comes from the only long term study done on transgender identified people: "Second, regarding any crime, male-to-females had a significantly increased risk for crime compared to female controls (aHR 6.6; 95% CI 4.1–10.8) but not compared to males (aHR 0.8; 95% CI 0.5–1.2). This indicates that they retained a male pattern regarding criminality. The same was true regarding violent crime.”

Further, up to half of all TIM inmates in the UK are sex offenders.

On top of all this, it HAS literally happened in at least one recorded instance that a male sexual predator who claimed to be a TIM was admitted to a shelter and sexually assaulted women. Yes, this happened in Canada but there’s no reason it can’t happen here too.

So what can we do as ordinary women? I am genuinely asking, that is not a rhetorical question. As can be inferred by this possibly over long post (sorry for that!) I’ve been reading widely, deeply and extensively on this topic but that is as far as I have personally gone. I searched and did find a petition to try to stop Women's Aid from allowing TIMs to work there. I will write and possibly call Women’s Aid as the Mumsnet poster advised.

Beyond that is there anything to be done?

Perhaps contact your local women's aid directly, and talk or email correspond with one of the managers? They will likely be up to speed on their own stand on self-ID policy, and may be in a position to feed back to governing bodies.

I have signed the petition and written to My MP.
Write to your MP about self-ID with the focus on refuges.

Thanks - I’ve signed the petition as a start.

Thank you for posting this. It is well thought out and comprehensive. I will be using the info you have kindly posted to write to my mp and my local women’s services. I just don’t don’t think I can peak anymore. I really do have a Altitude sickness with all of this.

I have already signed the petition but I am also going to write to my MP as well.

Please could you tell me if your name is publicly available if you sign the petition?

I also emailed women's aid and received a stock reply that many others did. I was disappointed as my email went into some detail about my abusive ex. I was fortunate enough to done the freedom programme 3 years ago and am still in touch with about ten other DV survivors, I have spoken to
a couple of them that I remained close to, to let them know what's going on and they were equally horrified and were planning to write to women's aid too. I will carry on messaging the other women I'm still in contact with, the more women speaking up the better. Beyond that I'm not sure what else I can be doing, but will be following this thread for more suggestions

The fact that they're holding the review at all suggests that there is a significant bloc of queer/gender theory devotees in the organisation who are pushing for the inclusion of men.

I've mentioned before that gender studies graduates are heavily represented in the women's sector - I mean, what else are you going to do with a gender studies degree? (Apart from teach gender studies.) They graduate then go straight into jobs with women's orgs. Sociology grads also gravitate there, and they too are heavily steeped in postmodernism/queer theory.

I read a horrifying thread on Twitter a few months ago (sorry, don't remember the user's name so can't link to it) by a woman who worked in a women's refuge, who said there was a fetishistic man in there who was making the female residents uncomfortable, and those who had complained to management were scolded for their 'transphobia'. The man's behaviour was obviously exhibitionistic and intimidating, but since most of the staff subscribed to queer/trans theory, they refused to do anything about it and blamed the women instead. It really made me feel ill to think that some refuges are now run by misogynistic third-wave anti-feminists who think it's appropriate to spout Judith Butler at abused women.

It's worth noting that any Women's Aid policy change will be guidance only - individual refuges and organisations will be able to make their own hiring policies. At least while the EA exemptions still exist. As the OP says, the really high stakes here are that the government has essentially said it will follow the lead of WA when it comes to the stalled GRA bill. So if WA caves to self ID (which it very well could do), it not only gives the the government the green light to go ahead with the bill, but it means there will be no large, credible women's organisation opposing self ID (except maybe NIA? Not sure how big they are). That makes the job of groups like Women's Place UK very difficult, since one of its key demands is 'Government to consult with women's groups on how self-identification will impact women'.

Queer theory really is a destructive, colonising mind virus. It's the perfect patriarchal weapon. As the above story from Twitter illustrates, women who subscribe to trans ideology are not going to be moved by evidence or reasoned argument, let alone concern for women and children. It's a religion for them and they will have no more compunction about harming marginalised women via the imposition of their patriarchal religious beliefs than did the nuns of the Magdalene Laundries.

Gentlygently - no names don't appear on the petition.

What is the stock reply that people are getting from Women's Aid?

Women's Aid has said they are going to survey their member organisations and take views of survivors. I think that means the best approach is to try to influence both local and national levels simultaneously. You can find contact details for local services here www.womensaid.org.uk/domestic-abuse-directory/ Letters from survivors will be particularly powerful I think.

I'm hoping that the current Oxfam scandal will cause extra caution at women's aid. Perhaps pointing out that 'would those men be welcome to work there if they changed their identity' might be a good line?

What is the stock reply that people are getting from Women's Aid?

Reply from [email protected]
---

Thank you for your email and we understand your concern.

With the government proposing to consult on and review the Gender Recognition Act, like many other organisations, we are taking the opportunity to review our internal policies. We are beginning this work now, and will talk to our member organisations and survivors as part of the process. Any decisions on our internal policy will be taken once this review is completed.

Women’s Aid is a federation, and as such it is not in our power to set the policies of the expert, independent, organisations that form our membership and run direct services for survivors. What we will do is use the outcome of the review to offer guidance to our membership on best practice.

Your support is very important to us and we will take your comments on board when reviewing our policies.
--

I think if you communicate directly with the person who runs your local refuge, you will get a better idea of their thoughts and may have a better chance to persuade them. Each refuge will have autonomy to implement their own procedures, the guidance set by the organisation is advisory only.

The guidance set by the organisation is advisory only However, if they advise that exemptions be dropped for single-sex employment, then that will become the standard set by commissioners of services (local authorities) and that is what will be imposed on service providers in contracts.

Queer theory really is a destructive, colonising mind virus. It's the perfect patriarchal weapon. As the above story from Twitter illustrates, women who subscribe to trans ideology are not going to be moved by evidence or reasoned argument, let alone concern for women and children. It's a religion for them and they will have no more compunction about harming marginalised women via the imposition of their patriarchal religious beliefs than did the nuns of the Magdalene Laundries.

Couldn't agree more. Trying to debate someone who's steeped in queer theory is like arguing with a Scientologist. It's a frustrating waste of time, and no amount of counterevidence will make any difference to them. We should stop trying to change their minds and focus on persuading the people with decision making power that our position is the more realistic and responsible one.

Unfortunately for women's orgs, the decision makers seem to be the queer theorists.
I'm starting to think nothing short of an armed revolution will save us.

I have a friend that works for women's aid I asked about this she seemed to think they would allow self id as a TIM with a GRA certificate can already work there.

That's the problem, many people don't think there's any difference between self-ID and the current procedure in getting a GRC but there is a huge difference.

To me there isn't. They are still essentially male bodied. The GRC to me is a legal fiction. You cannot ever change your biological sex.

Bump

Normally I'd say boycott or withdraw donations, but we can't do that with Women's Aid as it won't be the organization that suffers. The only other option seems to calling attention to what they're planning in the media. I know a lot of people here hate the thought of working with the right wing media but given the current blackout on anything negative about trans issues in the Guardian etc I don't think we have a choice.

Also see thread where someone was asking people in favor of self-ID to explain why and a trans woman with a GRC showed up - "Clare" is an admitted autogynephile, demonstrating that possession of a GRC in no way means that a person is safe to have around vulnerable women.

Materially there's no difference, but in practice there is, seeing as only about 4% of trans identified males have a GRC because either the professional saw through it as a fetish and blocked it, or they aren't that bothered, they don't actually have an intention to "live as their chosen gender" they just want to pic-and-mix, not to mention the 1400 prisoners who self ID as trans but don't have a GRC.

The implications of allowing people to self-ID without needing a GRC are huge. It's basically any bloke, any time with no gatekeeping.

*busyboysmum

I agree, I just don't want people assuming that GRC - safe, "genuine", vetted properly, etc. Clearly some people have gamed the system, and the fact that Women's Aid already allows them into positions where they'll encounter vulnerable women is unacceptable.

Signed..thanks for posting

Women's aid are perfectly within their right to refuse a TIM, with or without a GRC.

The equality law is about fairness, not treating everybody the same. And there are specific exemptions that they could use.

And I don't understand why they are not going all out, to use every exemption they can.

Transactivism is doing a number on women's aid.

Coupled with, as previous posters have said, the political culture that has arisen from things like gender studies.

Women's Aid, have the power in law, to stop this. Why aren't they? Where is the pressure coming from?

We are sliding towards a culture of acceptance that one protected characteristic is more important than the other.

It bloody isn't.

And Women's Aid has to be the most prime example of this.

The very place where being male and male violence is the entire fucking reason the women are there in the first place.

Nicola William's Fairplay for Women specifies the exact part of the law that can be invoked to keep this women only, across the board. Applied with refuges specifically in mind.

Please quote it if you are writing.

Equality law insists that they have thought about the impact. Whether that is in a written assessment, or a meeting. They must take women into account. Make them acknowledge this.

I'm hoping women's Aid might be grateful for the support to make the correct decision. Although, to be honest, I don't know why they bothered to publicise it in the first place. But again, I should imagine they are under some pressure from transactivism.

Here is a link to the fact sheet. Quote the relevant bit of law.

It's one page, and the relevant law section is in the first two paragraphs.

fairplayforwomen.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/FPFW_womenonlyspaces_guide.pdf

If Women's Aid are the people who are going to set the benchmark for this, this is absolutely pivotal.