How to press Women’s Aid to NOT allow trans identified males to work there?

[DichordStasis]

To preface, I signed up to MN finally to talk about this issue as I feel it’s so critically important. I’ve been reading for years but only now bit the bullet and made an account.

For some context: I think revising the Gender Recognition Act to allow self-ID would be utterly disastrous for women. I’m sure I don’t need to convince most of you but this factsheet gives a good overview of the main harms that allowing males to self-identify as women poses to women and girls. I feel strongly that such a measure should be resisted at all costs.

I’m quite far left and dislike the Tories quite a lot. However, they are currently the ruling party and, IMO, it is exponentially more likely that they will back away from supporting changes to the GRA than Labour will. Most of the Tory base already disagrees with it, I’d wager. It was also likely that Justine Greening was starting to have cold feet before she was sacked.

Greening’s replacement as equalities chief Amber Rudd is being quite cautious in her statements regarding the GRA as well. In a recent (early Feb. 2018) interview Rudd said that she would look closely at the conclusion that Women’s Aid makes regarding whether or not to allow transgender identified males [TIMs for short] to work at women’s shelters and take her cues on how to proceed regarding amending the GRA to allow self-identification from that outcome. You can see her full comments here it’s at the bottom of the interview. Here’s a link discussing the situation at Women’s Aid regarding TIMs.

Therefore it seems like a very important and pressing matter to express to Women’s Aid just how awful a choice it would be to allow self-identified TIMs to work at the shelters. It sounds like IF Women’s Aid decides that TIMs aren’t allowed to work there, then the Tories will take a dimmer view of revising the GRA to include self-ID.

That said we really should be pressuring Women’s Aid to not allow TIMs to work there regardless since women and children in need of these shelters are, by definition, traumatized and vulnerable. Overwhelmingly they are there as a result of MALE violence. Not “people who identify as men’s” violence, MALE violence. This account from a Mumsnet poster about her experience as a young girl traumatized by male violence who developed an extreme fear of males is incredibly moving. I can’t see how any decent person could wish to inflict that kind of secondary trauma on a young child or her mother. They aren’t “bigots” for wanting to be away from people who are clearly male, as are the overwhelming majority of TIMs, they are victims of male abuse and deserve to have a space away from males to start the healing process, which Women’s Aid has historically been.

It must also be noted that TIMs are male and retain male patterns of criminality. This data comes from the only long term study done on transgender identified people: "Second, regarding any crime, male-to-females had a significantly increased risk for crime compared to female controls (aHR 6.6; 95% CI 4.1–10.8) but not compared to males (aHR 0.8; 95% CI 0.5–1.2). This indicates that they retained a male pattern regarding criminality. The same was true regarding violent crime.”

Further, up to half of all TIM inmates in the UK are sex offenders.

On top of all this, it HAS literally happened in at least one recorded instance that a male sexual predator who claimed to be a TIM was admitted to a shelter and sexually assaulted women. Yes, this happened in Canada but there’s no reason it can’t happen here too.

So what can we do as ordinary women? I am genuinely asking, that is not a rhetorical question. As can be inferred by this possibly over long post (sorry for that!) I’ve been reading widely, deeply and extensively on this topic but that is as far as I have personally gone. I searched and did find a petition to try to stop Women's Aid from allowing TIMs to work there. I will write and possibly call Women’s Aid as the Mumsnet poster advised.

Beyond that is there anything to be done?

"Schedule 9 Part 1 Section 1: This allows the legal exclusion of males AND transgender people born male from being employed as staff when there is “an occupational requirement to not be a transsexual person”

Yet again we see here the lawful protections for women that have already been written into Equality Law being ignored. It is perfectly legal to exclude a male AND a trans-identified male from a female only space like a refuge when there is a good case for doing so. Its written in black and white. Its categorically lawful for Women's Aid to retain their biological female policy. There is no reason whatsoever why they need to review or reform this policy.

I was on the LBC radio talking about this. just 7 mins - have a listen if you can. The trans person I was up against have no come back whatsoever. We have to say no to this. We can and we should.

drive.google.com/open?id=1YvhrWctRNPJmNTpq4K4QlDyzoYOcGmNF

I take it that Mankind will also now be helping self identifying men. Tis only fair after all

DoctorW Thats excellent, is it ok to share?

Signed.

DoctorW 🙏🏻 thank you....

Signed petition

@AngryAttackKittens

Yeah, getting the media to focus on it would be great. TBF, the Guardian has published some few critical pieces over the years, but you are correct that the allowances for those there are diminishing as time goes by. The Times has been the best. The Economist has also run some pieces that try to strike a "balance". I'm personally at a loss of how to drive increased media coverage though.

One other thought I had is that we should start doing what they do if at all possible. I suppose it's a long shot since most women are tied down to careers already, but I've noticed that transgenderists have taken over LGBT and women's groups by basically infiltrating them. They apply for and get hired, then the hire other likeminded queer theory types and it snowballs from there. I am fairly certain that it's been a concerted effort, too, not just happenstance. In this case, Katie Ghosh spent seven years at the notoriously pro-trans lgbTTTTT group Stonewall.

Perhaps some of us with the ability (and I realize that would be like 0.002% probably) should start applying for positions at Women's Aid in order to influence it from the inside.

I also agree with the notion that we should reach out to our local branches and try to persuade leadership there. I think it's critically important that the guidelines remain "female only, no TIMs".

Another thought I had was reaching out to the Vancouver Rape Relief shelter. It's a different situation since its leadership is radical feminist through and through as far as I can see, but they fought and repelled the legal challenge of a TIM who tried to force them to let him work there.

DoctorW I loved the interviewer too. I thought you were both excellent. You could sense the male entitlement from that TIM. It was all ‘what about the trans?’ He really couldn’t have done a better job of showing why men, no matter what they call themselves, should never be permitted to work in female only environments.

I did my tiny little bit this morning, when filling in a form at my docor’s surgery. It was in order to have my youngest referred to a specialist and I fill it in and sign it because she has SN. There it is GENDER - Female! On a bloody medical form! I put a line through gender, replaced with SEX and while handing it over, pointed out the change to the staff member. “I changed that for you. Whoever makes up these forms should have them proofread, as that word is a nonsense on a medical form. It should be SEX. You really would think a medical practice would know better.” sweet smile, pleasant thank you and goodbye, and exit 😬

DoctorW

That interview was brilliant! Who was the host?

He just came right out and said it's absolute nonsense and a no-brainer. I wanted to kiss him.

Who was that other person? Are they a transwoman?

Their criteria seem to be based on whether or not someone passes. Ffs.

How the bloody hell are you supposed to legislate for that?

Quite apart from which, can you imagine, what would happen to a traumatised woman, after she had laid herself bare confiding in a counsellor, only to find out afterwards that they are a man!!!

The violation of trust is unspeakable.

I really wish people would start talking about cross dressing fetishists being legitimately transgender now, too.

Anyone with a brain will connect those dots.

Fabulous interview. I hope you get more of them.

That TIM basically said that s/he could vouch for every single transperson and none of them would wish to harm women. O RLY?

I was on the LBC Nick Ferrari Breakfast show. The Trans speaker was Aimee Challenor. Scroll down to the bottom of this article I wrote and there's some more info.

fairplayforwomen.com/thank-india-w-showing-us-women-perceive-transwomen-still-male/

Brilliant article DoctorW.

Biological sex matter and the law agrees. I talked about how women need a male-free space to heal and recover. They must not be expected to suppress their fears when they perceive a male in front of them. This is not transphobia – this is human instinct – women recognise their oppressor class – don’t demonise us for this reality.

Women do recognise men. We are trained to, from the word go.

Not just appearance, but male pattern behaviour, male pattern mannerisms.

Women who have been traumatised at the hands of men, would have had to recognise this, because their lives, quite literally, depend upon it.

Their radar will be even more hypersensitive as result.

Something Aimee will simply never grasp.

With 'deadnaming'- how would proper DBS checks be carried out?

put a line through gender, replaced with SEX and while handing it over, pointed out the change to the staff member. “I changed that for you. Whoever makes up these forms should have them proofread, as that word is a nonsense on a medical form. It should be SEX. You really would think a medical practice would know better.”

I love you, PositivelyPERF!

Would Clare pass safeguarding at Women's Aid?

What safeguarding is there?

If they did have someone trans working for them, would it be acceptable for them to have a blog like that? Would they lose their job if it was reported to the organisation?

Majorly problematic. Would you have the same concerns over a woman? Transphobic or the need for additional checks? (which of course would also have to be applied to women to avoid the accusation).

How would that even work Red?

I can totally see a situation where someone's AGP is evident, but they aren't accountable. Partly because they are women and that's what women do now, right? Why shouldn't women have a sexuality, you kink shamer.

Or, alternatively, because they are hiding behind the gender dysphoria narrative, no one realises.

I'm convinced that Women's Aid, like most people, are entirely unaware of AGP.

Who could ever contemplate choosing a rape crisis counsellor from a cohort which, officially, includes men who fetishise women?

It's breathtaking.

It wouldn't.

That's the point.

Added to the fact that males who want to force vulnerable traumatised women to accept them into a female space against their will shouldn't really be considered to have the requisite empathy and sensitivity you would expect for the role.

I do not recognise the theory of self-identifying gender. If transsexual, the person should be working via protocol towards surgery under the care of a Gender Identity Clinic. No male individual (avec genitalia) should be working in a women’s refuge regardless of what gender he adopts. Make-up and female clothing is irrelevant where safety is paramount.

Men who have no intention of surgery but insist on a female identity are being at best self-indulgent. One month they may present as a woman, a few months down the line they revert to their male persona, and it’s always others who have to adjust to them.
What is needed is the voice of someone like Erin Pizzey who started the refuge movement in 1971, but she was usurped because of some strident idealogues whose primary motivation was not the beaten women, but their own naive notion of how violence is perpetuated in families.

We have been ‘softened up’ for years by the likes of Eddie Izzard to view men like him as benign and harmless.

Someone said on another thread that this movement came out of the blue, very quickly, strongly and already has the ear of govt – and it is true. I believe it is something to do with eroding a woman’s biological domain and marginalising us. Recently there was a report in the papers about a man who asked to be given hormones so that he could breastfeed the baby his partner has had but doesnt want to breastfeed. Partner is currently female but wants to transition to male.

Check out Tamsin Sutherland's own story. That magazine is the only one who would accept his article.

countrysquire.co.uk/2017/10/28/transinister/

@DoctorW Would it be possible to upload that interview to Youtube? I'm personally a bit paranoid about Google Drive since I feel like Google collects a lot of personal information, even if you are not logged in. Maybe youtube is actually just as bad, but somehow it does feel safer and easier to share.

Thanks for considering the option, I understand if you don't want to do the extra work of course. And thanks for the article! That was great.