Former jockey is now a woman

[IntelligentYetIndecisive]

Vince Smith is now Victoria Smith and is still attracted to women.

There's a surprise.

What's your problem with her? I thought the way MN is deflecting claims of transphobia is that its TRAs and self ID that is the problem. Not transgenderism itself.

Ah, right. The OP was expressing sympathy for the predicament Vince/Victoria finds herself in. Thanks for the clarification.

I can't speak for the OP, but my reason for posting on this thread is because I'm angry. Angry that I'm raising a child in a society which is so intolerant of personal expression.

This one really doesn't bother me, and as a horsewoman the only sex split in racing is fillies and colts so...

I think it undermines the argument we have against actual bullshit transactivism to go for every man who wants to dress as a stereotype of a woman.

There are some races that are exclusively for woman jockeys. If she started entering those and winning them by virtue of getting put up on better horses by owners and trainers who still perceived her as a man, that would be an issue. If, as I said upthread, she were to win a major race and be acclaimed as the first woman to do so, that would also be an issue. But neither of those things is likely to happen given her age, so I have no problem with her and wish her all the best.

I'm annoyed because it's another man who seems to think being a woman is a matter of dressing up.

He is a she because she likes girly clothes and make up.

Gender stereotyping is so rigid that a heterosexual man in a macho industry feels he must be a woman if he doesn't conform to the masculine stereotype.

The article does say she is keen to try racing in charity events.

Have a thread about gender stereotyping the. Don't single out someone for a thread in the hope that people will be outraged and make unpleasant comments as that seems to be what you were anticipating.

Why is everyone getting so worked up over this? Since when did we take what the tabloids print as gospel truth? Lots of her thoughts and feelings over this probably haven't been reported. I can't see how Vicky is now just a man who likes girly clothes and makeup and shouldn't identify as female because of what was stated in an article.

To be honest I think Vicky is very brace - racing is a very close knit community. It must be difficult to have the courage to put your private life out there for everyone to nit pick the facts.

nd this place is still all over her like a rash.

As far as i can see most posters have said they dont have a problem at all and cant figure out the Ops 'issue'

And i do understand the OPs 'issue' but as usual i have no problem with how people want to dress

Im getting a bit pissed off with all the 'goodness you are all transphobic' bullshit

Because this is the kind of thread that is transphobic. It's aim isn't to raise awareness of TRAs or the dangers of self ID or objecting to the erosion of women it's just objecting to someone being transgender and dismissing the person and their life to 'a man who likes to dress up'.

Because this is the kind of thread that is transphobic.

Lucky i didn't say that the thread wasn't transphobic then isnt it

As i said its the 'you are all transphobic' posts that piss me off

You think a thread is transphobic fine...report

You think someone is being transphobic fine...report

There's nothing wrong in essence with anything this individual person is doing but viewing it as part of the wider political and ideological argument around transgenderism that is going on currently it does raise questions.

Why are so many men announcing they are women late in life?

Is this person what was previously known as a cross dresser?

Is it a good thing that cross dressers and other gender non conforming people no longer feel the need to hide?

Are cross dressers really what we understand as transgender?

Should they really fall under the same umbrella as people with gender dysphoria?

Does any of the above actually make them a woman?

Should the category of woman make space for men who like a particular sort of clothing and outward appearance?

Live and let live is fine to a degree but this is a big political, cultural and philosophical debate that is going on at the moment.

We have the right to (respectfully) ask all the questions we want when it's a change in the definition of 51% of the population that is seemingly state sanctioned.

Ask questions sure, don't single out a person and ignore that they've said they felt they've been battling with themselves and living a double life from childhood to try and provoke some kind of outrage that they've dared to come out and say they're trans (outrage which I'm heartened to see hasn't happened).

I am gender critical and on board with most of the concerns on MN but whenever there is an accusation of transphobia posters always deny it and say 'no we have no problem with trans people who just want to get on with their lives, we respect the trans people in our lives, it's TRAs and self-ID we're concerned about' and then an OP like this is just basically pissed off this person is trans. Which is transphobia.

cobra

Yes I understand your point re the OP

But a fair few posters have come on to say they dont see the problem

But apparently even saying that you dont have a problem is also transphobic...as 'you are all transphobic'

OvaHere has better skills than me.

This. Why do men who dress in women's clothing believe they are women?

I understand s/he's had something nagging at her/him for decades, I understand s/he's expressing himself more freely, but does that mean s/he's a woman?

I assume you're talking generally rather than to me directly? Because I've been clear I don't think MN or most of the posters on trans issues are transphobic, just that the premise of this thread is.

That post is to Rufus.

I think you're being disingenuous now OP because you didn't get the response

Your opening post wasn't raising any questions or areas of debate. Just a sarcastic comment and emoji. Your next couple of posts were ignoring most of the article you linked to and just about your judgement that her reasons for transition are superficial.

Should read didn't get the response you anticipated

And this place is still all over her like a rash

No, some posters are. I see no merit in the personal attack on the individual concerned and I agree the premise is transphobic. I actually reported it - partly because I don't want ammunition given to detractors of MN.

That's why I reported it too Lass. It gives fuel to people who want to attack the site which DOES have some really important information about trans issues that people need to know about.

And it further alienates the posters here who already roll their eyes, think most of us are transphobic and want all the threads hidden away in a corner of the site.

I'm pretty fiercely gender critical but so long as he's not hurting anyone else or trying to re-define the meaning of woman, I'm all for it if it makes him happy.

I get that the OP's post was a bit snarky and that's not helpful to achieving our aims in awareness raising but women aren't perfect, we have off days, lose our tempers, roll our eyes and use sarcasm.

Faced with having our biological reality erased from common parlance and the attacks on our rights to segregate from men in intimate spaces the odd rolling eye emoji is hardly the end of the world.

If we weren't socialised as women to be mostly nice we would have probably stormed the Houses of Parliament en mass some time ago.

The OP may not have articulated herself well but the question still remains why are so many men late in life identifying as women (mostly lesbian women) and all the other questions that lead from that?

it's just objecting to someone being transgender and dismissing the person and their life to 'a man who likes to dress up'.

But, in the interview linked to, that is all Victoria has said being a women means to them!

Not withstanding the wider self-ID debate, I'm mad as hell that someone whose spent his life "looking at women", "eyeing up women", "chasing women" now claims that it was not because of sexual attraction, but envy of their clothing and makeup - yet in the next breath states that she is still attracted to women sexually.

It's a bloody good excuse for sexist behaviour, isn't it? How many women were intimidated by his apparent perving, which is now being excused as envy?