The word 'Ladies'

[Grammar]

Is it me or is it an outmoded, potentially manipulative word?
I realise people use the word 'gentleman' but to me this word 'Ladies' is ( sorry estate agents) estate agent speke/ men who have no insight into equality/ egalitarianism.
I know quite a few women who use the word too.
I do hope this does not provoke an unhelpful or hurtful response. It is simply that I have a very visceral dislike of the word and the oft used context it is involved in.
Do please let me know if I'm being unreasonable.
What are your thoughts?

I can see it being used in a derogatory way, but you can make almost anything derogatory if you really want to; it's all in the delivery.

I most use and hear "ladies" in my sporting hobby. Every single captain of every single women's team I've ever known will address the team as "ladies". We refer to ourselves as ladies. I guess it's historic. Noone I know has ever expressed offence.

A colleague at work once addressed me as "girly"....

Noone in the office will ever forget that day.

I hate the word "ladies", by the way. It sounds so massively outdated in the twenty-first century. When I hear it, I associate it with those men who haven't quite caught up with the fact that women are no longer second-class citizens who need to be treated as something slightly strange and breakable.

How is it respectful? It just sounds sleazy and patronising.

I like it.

I only ever hear it from sleazy men, so possibly I unconsciously associate it with them. It makes my spine crawl.

It's a word we need in various situations. The thing to do is stop people using it patronisingly. It's one of our words, we shouldn't be put off by some sexist men.

I use 'lady' and 'gentleman' when referring to someone I don't know. 'Be careful of that gentleman's toes'.

I use ' Hi ladies' when I join a group.

To whom though? How to you propose we indicate the person to whom the 'thank you' is to be addressed, shall we point (rude) or we just hope the child guesses right?

Surely the person being thanked and the small child will know to whom the 'thanks' are being expressed?

Far be it for me to say which words any individual aesthetically prefers or abhors, but I can empathise with not wanting to be patronised/belittled.

Unfortunately the precise words commonly used in a patronising/belittling if that becomes the focus actually deflects from those doing it. Furthermore if one term falls out of use another will rush in to takes its place kind of like plugging a hole in a damn.

I don’t have the precise experience of being called lady, but as a man other men might be given to calling me “mate” and then going on to be very patronising. I get a lot of mileage out of drawing attention to tone and body language, make eye contact and with a slight frown ask: “did you mean to sound quite that patronising or did you mispeak?”

It’s harder to do online because of course you have only words to go on, but with a bit of practise it can sort of work there too.

I get that some people find it patronising but one thing I like about the word is that it does not contain the word for 'man'
E.g. Wo-man / fe-male which linguistically puts us as sub-species.

I think if "Ladies" or "Girls" or "Boys" etc annoys you that's fine.

But don't make a thing of it because, for 90% of people, it isn't an issue.

It's absolutely your right to not like & use it, but the minute you start trying to dictate to other people you start to come across a "certain way" and eyerolling will ensue....

“did you mean to sound quite that patronising or did you mispeak?”

Which century was this in? It's a Jane Austen quote isn't it?

It's absolutely your right to not like & use it, but the minute you start trying to dictate to other people you start to come across a "certain way" and eyerolling will ensue....

So it's fine not to like it, but please just put up and shut up if anyone refers to you using a term you don't like?

It depends on the context for me.

"Hi ladies, I have a problem" as an opener to a forum post doesn't bother me as I can equally imagine someone starting a thread on a forum as "Gents, I have a problem"

I prefer it to "girls"

But then "girls night out" or "boys night out" are equally ok.

I don't like Ladies tennis when they use men's tennis. In that case it should be women's tennis.

I guess I'm making it complicated but as I say, it depends on the context.

Given the vast array of different responses on here I’m no closer to knowing whether it’s wrong to use the word lady or not

a hundred times better that 'girls' though

So it's fine not to like it, but please just put up and shut up if anyone refers to you using a term you don't like?

Exactly.

It'd be different if it was an insult or rude name, but just because you don't like the word doesn't give you the right to correct someone else using it.

It's about accepting that not everyone uses the same phraseology across upbringings and geographies & having a little tolerance.

Oh, I would never correct someone, that would be rude.
I'm more thinking of the context,' Hi Ladies', Ladies Golf, 'Ladies' Night, ..
There are, as has been pointed out a lot of different contexts within which it is used and I agree, that often there isn't another alternative. Just that.
Although I do see red when I am called, 'sweetheart' or My Love' as was what happened in New Look by an assistant in her teens to me (in her 50s). I did ask the manager whether forms of address are ever discussed at meetings; she said no, but, she said, they probably got it from her as she called customers this herself.
I am too polite/ scared of confrontation to really take issue with it, but surely, these forms of address are simply unnecessary.
ie 'Could you tell me where the teen section is please?
'Yes, of course, it's over here'. No need for My love, or Sweetheart or similar...it is patronising and condescending. Maybe I'm derailing a bit, sorry, and I'm sure it's been discussed before on here.

To whom though? How to you propose we indicate the person to whom the 'thank you' is to be addressed, shall we point (rude) or we just hope the child guesses right?

Surely the person being thanked and the small child will know to whom the 'thanks' are being expressed?

Nope - that's the point. You say 'Say thank you to the lady' or 'Say thank you to the gentleman' but if you just say 'Say thank you' they will probably say 'Thank you Mummy' (because that is also valid and something you probably expect when you are teaching them manners day to day) - but in this instance you expected it to be directed at the person in the shop serving you.

That would be why being clear, to the child, is important, not cutting the sentence short for fear of somehow being offensive by using the wrong term to correctly identify the person who served you to whom you can't use the term 'person' in that context because it would be rude/ridiculous.

Although I do see red when I am called, 'sweetheart' or My Love' as was what happened in New Look by an assistant in her teens to me

If it was a woman saying this to me it wouldn’t bother me. The next man that calls me “pet” however...

Wow, you learn some things.
Given the huge amount of women who happily use the word without taking offense, I don't think it can be all that offensive.
Of course, as GuardianLions says, it can be used in a belittling way (but then all the words for female can be. Am I a massive mysogynist for using woman avove??).

Seriously, chill out. This is one of the reasons feminists get a bad name. Some of the women in this section getting angry about NOTHING.

Seriously, accept that different people have different things that bug them and stop telling them to shut up because you don't care.

For example, I couldn't care less if someone parks over my drive for an hour. Some on Mumsnet would be at all-out war. I don't tell them off

Old news now but Ladies and Gentlemen was banned by TfL as an intro to their announcements.

I am not a fan of Ladies as a work. It sounds feeble compared with Women.

A manager once sent an email to "Guys and Gals" and yes, I was the only one who called him out about it (hardly a Gal going into my 40s) but still, language is important. I am paid the same as my male counterparts and I deserve the same respect.

A director addresses us all in his messages as People or Everyone, to avoid being accused of using gender pronouns. That I find silly!

*word not work.

Grammar I get called Love, Darling etc by male contractors at work and I say to them, no, call me () and they get arsey but I am not their darling.

The reason 'woman' can sound a bit off to some ears, is I think because not all that long ago, anyone below a certain social level would usually be referred to as a 'woman', often with sniffy undertones, whereas anyone above it - MC+ - would be a 'lady'.

Anyone who reads novels that are even a bit ancient will see it.

I'm sure I read somewhere that the old Anglo Saxon origin of 'lady' meant 'giver of bread'. Which is most of us, if you count everything we feed them, and not just beans/Marmite on toast.

I know I've been guilty of saying to Gdd (still under 3) 'Say thank you to the lady,' in a shop, etc. I wouldn't feel comfortable saying 'the woman' , since I'm sure some people would take it amiss, so I suppose the answer is to leave it out altogether. And I suppose my main concern is training her to say thank you as a matter of course.