The word 'Ladies'

[Grammar]

Is it me or is it an outmoded, potentially manipulative word?
I realise people use the word 'gentleman' but to me this word 'Ladies' is ( sorry estate agents) estate agent speke/ men who have no insight into equality/ egalitarianism.
I know quite a few women who use the word too.
I do hope this does not provoke an unhelpful or hurtful response. It is simply that I have a very visceral dislike of the word and the oft used context it is involved in.
Do please let me know if I'm being unreasonable.
What are your thoughts?

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I agree about "guys" AntArctic - makes me shudder- because it's normally accompanied by a twat.

'Boys will be boys' isn't this a caddishness deserving of no more than a clip round the ear and a free pass?
'MEN are disgusting this again is a bit slugs and snails and puppy dogs tails - giving males and free pass to do wtf they want no matter how unpleasant it is for others? Eg- making their partner sit in their stinky fart cloud rather than doing it politely in the bathroom.

Both are said with a kind of fondness.

Unless of course it is discussing the genuine violence and depravity overwhelmingly exhibited by the male sex- in that case it is more 'description' rather than insult isn't it?

I just read the post about "hi ladies" to counter the cloying "hi guys". I love that.

I think that we can all agree that the tone and context are the most important.

Would I find it manipulative/derogatory if a child/carer pointed at me and said "lady". No.

Would I get offended by the term "ladies" if used in a patronising tone? ie "ladies, can you give all men notice on what is okay to call you as we are not psychic." Yes.

Lady is a polite or formal way of addressing a woman, I can't even begin to imagine a situation where I would be angry about being called a 'lady'.
Doesn't this thread just seems so pedantic and ridiculous compared to real issues?

Doesn't "say thank you to the woman" sound a bit off?

Hows about 'say thank you'?

To whom though? How to you propose we indicate the person to whom the 'thank you' is to be addressed, shall we point (rude) or we just hope the child guesses right?

'Woman' is rude. 'Person' also rude implies that you aren't sure what they are (which I would find really offensive as a tall woman who has spent her life with people addressing me incorrectly when I'm in their peripheral vision/they have got their eyes down to the till etc then being mortified when they look up!). Lady is polite. What is the issue with lady? The male equivalent to lady is gentleman or Sir - is this also offensive? Are we not allowed to be recognised as being female in case it offends someone. Look at Justin Trudeau's recent 'peoplekind' gaffe. It's a fucking minefield.

There are so many things in the world to be offended about, some of which are important & becoming offended by literally everything minimises the impact of the important things. For me Lady/Ladies is fine - let's look elsewhere for problems (plenty of them about...).

'Ladies' sounds patronising to me. It's often said with a sneer - fake respect.

On the other hand, adults referring to other adults as 'lady' when talking to a small child is a lot more respectful than 'woman'. As in, 'get out the way of that lady'.

With the children I used "thank the kind lady/ gentleman" and tbh even now they are teens I think I use it with them in a "lady in the cafe" situation. If I'm in a "woke", vegan- enabled establishment I grunt like everyone else. I may even do a Trudeauesque "the person at the counter."

Doesn’t bother me in the slightest as I think generally it’s just a figure of speech. I was just called a good girl for loading up the shopping of a mature chap in the supermarket, by the chap himself. I’m well over 40. I found it sweet

Lady is polite. What is the issue with lady? The male equivalent to lady is gentleman or Sir - is this also offensive?

If it were exactly equivalent, it would be fine. But it's not - upthread there are examples of, "say thank you to the man, say thank you to the lady." It's not "say thank you to the gentleman," nor "say thank you to the woman."

If they're directly equivalent, it would be "ladies and gentlemen", and "men and women" - if we are talking about saying them together, it usually is. "Men and ladies" or "Gentlemen and women" both sound odd because they're not equivalent terms.

It is not the biggest issue, but most of us are capable of thinking about more than one thing, so it's not a problem.

On the other hand, adults referring to other adults as 'lady' when talking to a small child is a lot more respectful than 'woman'. As in, 'get out the way of that lady'.

We could start saying, "get out of the way of that person," and doing things like that miht get children thinking about people as people, rather than specifically as a man or woman, which isn't the main factor when saying thank you or being in the way.

I wonder if there is a bit of a generation gap with how "lady/ladies" is perceived.

If you've been raised to consider lady polite and woman rude I can quite understand why you think there is no problem. (Although I never understood why "man" is not similarly considered rude)

However I grew up with "lady" and "ladylike" being used to police female behaviour.

Eg It's unladylike to drink pints/get drunk/wear revealing clothing/sit with your knees apart/express a strong opinion/climb trees and so on.

I very rarely heard men being described as ungentlemanlike Interestingly my spellcheck recognises unladylike but not ungentlemanlike

As a result there was a bit of a backlash to being called a "lady" as in no "I'm not demure, prim, quiet or whatever"

Personally I'm not offended by being referred to as a lady but similarly I'm not offended by being called a "woman" However I can be irritated by "Ladies, insert patronising statement here" and will respond with "I'm not a lady" when it's being used to enforce a sexist standard of behaviour.

I don't mind it I often say say thank you to the lady/ man to my 2yo toddler twins as otherwise they say "thank you mummy" when I say "say thank you" :) It can be kid of sleazy when done by blokes but there is generally a sleazy undertone or intention anyway which is what gets your back up. Get out of the way of that person feels oddly rude to me. Like your failing to see them as an individual somehow.

Thinking about this blokes middle aged and younger are referred to as man/ men but older is gentleman/ men so I'm probably agist to boot :)

But the patronising folk have just moved on to "guys" ime: language shifts.

Yes, you all have a good point about it not being such a big deal in the whole realm of living in this world. And indeed there are many more things to get offended about. I am not offended , I just really don't like the word. And it's just a word, but words can be laden with implication. I was interested in getting more varied viewpoint on it. Thank you to all who have contributed. It has put my view into perspective. Though I still hold by the view that it is the context.
I would never hold it against someone but it would resonate with me.
Upside, I would never be 'angry' about it. Simply, I would note it if used in a derogatory context.

Whoami. This exactly. Some (many?) are brought up to think lady is the correct or polite term. Not everybody who uses the word is a misogynistic bastard.

That’s what I meant. If you don’t like at least tell people in the first place. I definitely missed the memo that it was a rude term but since being on here have learned not to use it!

Sorry my post was not saying guys has replaced the sleazy style "ladies" you mention womaninatightspot. That sounds dire you are right.

It is the Trudeau type who is the modern patroniser is where I think I'm going with this..policing words for example.

@Caucho unfortunately I've seen so many times online and in real life women derided for stating they don't like being referred to as ladies/lady.

It's never enough to simply say I don't like it, you have to explain why. At which point you get dismissed as a feminist, being silly or told that you should have more important things to worry about.

It's very rare I've heard someone say "actually I see where you're coming from" usually the response is "well I don't mean it like that." There is often the added extra that the woman objecting should have used her physic powers to know it wasn't meant that way.

Argh psychic powers

I love it. I find it really respectful.

I personally use the words ‘lady’ and ‘ladies’ when I want to be more polite and respectful towards certain peopl - and yes, I happen to be a lady too. Otherwise, I just say ‘woman’ or ‘women,’ neither of which sound nearly as pleasant to my ears.

I also love it when I’m referred to as ‘madam’ in shops, but I also don’t mind ‘love,’ ‘darling,’ or ‘sweetheart.’

I think the situation involving certain words in this country has become crazy, and that so many people seem to be offended by everyday words, I find so hard to get my head around.

I dont find it offensive- I can't think of a polite alternative -"hey up wimmin"
Overall I don't like the policing of language and people feigning indignantion at a word. Slippery slope to go down.
its almost on the flip side of transactivism, as if any reference to being female is offensive.

I was always taught that it was impolite (read 'vulgar') and that women was the correct term

or I'll say "say thank you to the lady". Should I be saying Woman? Doesn't "say thank you to the woman" sound a bit off?

I don't know. Do you say, "Say thank you to the man" or "Say thank you to the gentleman"? Because there's your answer - if you are happy to use the former, why do you think that "Say thank you to the woman" sounds off?