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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Once again, misogyny from transwomen...

81 replies

TheCatsPaws · 09/02/2018 08:32

I’ve just witnessed a horrific exchange online. A young woman, about 19 I’d guess, made a comment about “trans identified males” and said that dressing as a woman doesn’t mean you understand being female. She was completely respectful, polite and insulted no one. Instantly she was attacked for her “terf language” and then, suddenly, her looks. The transwomen called her ugly, said she needed facial feminisation surgery, that her lips looked disgusting, that her vagina didn’t make her look less of a man, etc. And it was a dogpile that went on for hours.

HOW is this any different from men who turn abusive when a woman refuses to sleep with them or validate them, their go to is to call women ugly. It’s literally the same response. Plus, it shows their view of womanhood is based on looks, which is highly misogynistic...

This is really starting to fuck me off now.

OP posts:
shakeyourcaboose · 09/02/2018 20:28

terry it was mainly the modelling of 'interesting' what I would call 90s klub wear (who remembers liberty x..) and 'im so shy, does look nice' to a chorus of 'omg hun totally gawjus/you are soooo hot/so jell of your legs' no actual female who posted got such validation!

terryleather · 09/02/2018 20:59

Shakes Yikes, the images that conjures up are burning my retinas!

Ekphrasis · 09/02/2018 21:13

We just have to keep plodding on, knowing science and reason is on our side. Which it really is. And they fuck up constantly. Andi, the wolf person (haven't a clue their name) etc.

I'm seeing the value of taking out a times subscription and writing to let them know why. And writing to let the Guardian know why I'm leaving them. This is how to let the editors know what we want to be written.

Keep letting tiny bits of info out to friends I know aren't yet aware in order to peak them. Support trans people who aren't like this (utter nutters).

I will leave twitter in a flash if needed and re reg.

SoulCister · 09/02/2018 21:21

Ekphrasis I recently left the Guardian and took out a subscription for The Times... And as I read someone else say on here, I cannot believe I'm secretly hoping that the Daily Mail will help save us from lady dicks. Hell has definitely frozen over

shakeyourcaboose · 09/02/2018 21:33

I'm ashamed to say the level of paranoia I have about sharing anything on social media and losing my job is high (nhs). Was very anxious about this when filling out the scotgov survey. It's ridiculous that I know this is not an irrational fear.

Elderslie · 09/02/2018 21:41

Most transwomen don’t physically pass as women.

India Willoughby has some carefully taken and chosen photos in which she comes across as an above attractive woman.

The BBC Picture Editor consciously chooses to use these.

In 3D,listening to her speak, she is clearly trans.

Mainstream heterosexual men arent attracted. Mainstream attractive women aren’t attracted. All these handmaidens “liking” them online aren’t agreeing to sex with them.

They’ve bought into this idea that the world is at beautiful women’s feet (doubtful as it is) and think that if they get “access” then they’ll be this fantasy creature lusted after and adored by everyone.

Powerful men will fall at their feet (as lovely as the Roy Cropper character is I don’t think he’s what they are after)

But they often end up more on the fetishy/alternative side of sexuality. Which is fine, but they feel entitled to more, like taking hormones and putting on a frock should entitle them to completely move a few rungs up the social/attractiveness ladder ( and like a pp on another thread said the current “trans is cool” trend means they’re often the “novelty minority” social star, rather than having any meaningful connections)

I think that’s when the whole manipulative tendencies and victimy attitude and narcissistic rage kicks in? It’s like the Emperors New Clothes.

Datun · 09/02/2018 21:47

Taylor22

Cross posted with you @Datun**

I really really wish I could believe that. But I'm just so down trodden that I can't see it.

This is the reason I think we will ultimately win. We might have short-term losses. Possibly including the GRA - except even that has been kicked into the long grass for now.

Three years ago, it was only the feminists here who made any kind of noise about this. They were constantly attacked for it. Feminists have a highly honed misogyny meter. So they spotted it first.

Then there was a subtle shift.

Posting on AIBU, would be 90% cries of transphobia.

It's completely switched the other way.

At the same time, two years ago they were zero gender critical articles in the press. That has changed.

Autogynephilia was completely underground. That has changed.

More gender critical transwomen are coming out of the woodwork and supporting women. That is a change.

I can't tell you how many women have come on here and said how they used to be blindly pro trans, but now they see the problems. Numerous.

In the space of a year, dozens of feminist websites have been set up. All of them working towards the same goal, despite having to remain secret.

Coupled with that, transactivists have become complacent.

They have physically attacked a woman.

That was a turning point.

They spout such extreme misogyny, that it's impossible to ignore.

The Labour Party have lost several points and 5000 members. All women. This is being reported.

Justin Greening has publically back pedalled.

What we are experiencing now is an upping of the ante by transactivists.

The problem is, they have nowhere to go. Their entire argument has already been disseminated as wide as it can possibly be. All of it. They have no fallback position and nothing left in their arsenal. Transwomen are women.

Women, on the other hand, have only scratched the surface. Most people don't understand the difference between gender and sex. They don't understand gender is a hierarchy with women at the bottom. They don't understand about AGP. And they certainly don't realise how children are being medicated and made sterile.

Women's argument is logical, rational and backed up by evidence and statistics. Once you get it, you really get it.

The general public is running out of patience with the trans agenda.

"Not this again. Stop shoving it down our throats. Who cares? Why are we listening to such a tiny minority", etc.

And that's without hearing most of the argument.

Don't lose heart. Don't take setbacks as an indication.

There will be setbacks. They may be profound.

But women make up over half the population. They simply cannot afford to piss every one of us off.

A big thanks, to all of you, who have posted here. I never really appreciated the meaning of the word solidarity until now.

Ollycat · 09/02/2018 22:05

The tide will turn, I promise. We may lose the battle, but we will win the war

I do hope so - I just feel afraid at the moment if I’m honest.

Elderslie · 09/02/2018 22:08

shake I’m not THAT old and I’m already getting tired of the whole (AGP and fetish linked I know now?) compulsion to get others involved in discussions on their appearance?

I bought a skirt on Amazon. Wool midi skirt.

The review section. Usual comments about fit etc.

And a video clip (I’m an amazon addict and I’ve never seen this facility used before) of a bloke in the skirt, and a tiny tight top. Soft focus. On a beach.

Of course I’m clearly bigoted and jealous by not really wanting to see some flashing of hips by an exhibitionist bloke amongst normal mainstream shopping.

AngryAttackKittens · 09/02/2018 22:21

*I think many of them have a real disconnect about their actual looks as well. This is the fault of women I am afraid who have told them how beautiful and hot they are on a daily basis.

The same feminists who will rant one minute about the beauty industry and how girls don't need to be pretty all the time will turn and tell a what is clearly a man that he is 'gawjus'. Check their photos on Facebook etc. It's so strange. It's so clear that they are being treated differently than actual females by their friends but they don't care*

Yep, and in the long run treating them that way isn't even helping them, because reality will just be even more of a smack in the fact when it eventually filters through. They seem to have decided that the answer to this problem is making women too afraid to tell them the truth (they don't care what men say because most of them are straight), and if that doesn't work then make telling the truth illegal.

thebewilderness · 09/02/2018 22:28

4th rule of misogyny: Women's opinions are violence against men thus male violence against women is justified.

AngryAttackKittens · 09/02/2018 22:35

Do they think that this relentless sniping at the looks of women who disagree with them will prevent people from noticing the lantern jaw and the giant man hands? Men always do this when women won't do what they want us to. It's hilarious that they think we care. Like, OK, some delusional AGP on the internet thinks I'm unfuckable due to being too uppity. I'm supposed to care about that why, exactly?

HeyRoly · 09/02/2018 22:43

I used to be in a fb beauty group which i ended up leaving as it became a nightmare of handmaidenry fishing

Was it Mrs Gloss? Because I left, firstly because I couldn't bear to read all the posts from lovely looking young women complaining about having "no top lip" and needing fillers (apparently if your top lip doesn't look like a cocktail sausage it needs work) and the TWs wanting make up tips and basking in the compliments- which ALWAYS involve having "great legs". Why is that always crossdresser compliment 101?

Elderslie · 10/02/2018 00:06

I used to happily give out lots of compliments to cross dressers, thinking they probably needed them, solidarity with oppressed minority etc etc.

I’ve realised now that it’s not that they have a shortage of positive responses - they have a surplus of them. It’s like this compulsion/need for people (women) to “admire” them to prove something.

Plus I noticed how they would try to steer the discussion to something they seemed to be getting off on -how silk knickers felt “touching their skin” or what fake breasts felt like or the shock effect they’d managed to have on X member of the unconsenting public (not in a “how can I express myself without being harassed” way but with a touch of glee/humblebragging)

Milvusmilvus · 10/02/2018 00:08

"think many of them have a real disconnect about their actual looks as well. This is the fault of women I am afraid who have told them how beautiful and hot they are on a daily basis."

I seem to remember Dustin Hoffman mentioning how he felt when he was preparing for the film Tootsie. When he was in make up, he thought the make up artists could have done a better job to make him appear 'hotter' and was disappointed to hear 'that was the best they could do'. He then went on to say he felt a little more sympathetic to women because of this.
How many times do we hear 'If women just took a little more care of their appearance' therefore we could be hotter if we wanted to.
Do men actually believe this? Perhaps this is why their unabated male confidence gives them hottie goggles.

In CBB, India Willoughby was always confronting other people's views and in some way she was justified. It seemed to me she was looking for a partner.
She fancied Genuwine and he shrugged it off but India looked visibly shaken ( for a moment). This would be upsetting for anyone, but when everyone else inanely compliments her, she knows the compliments are a lie - and she calls them out for it.
Going overboard with compliments from straight people or whoever, doesn't help the cause. India knows this and is probably quite lonely As a result.
The bottom line is this:
Men's entitlement is being fuelled by sub conscious approval of their actions by some women and some men. Germaine Greer knew this and was booed off stage. She knows a thing or two about patriarchy.

Howyoualldoworkme · 10/02/2018 00:14

What do they hope for if they 'erase women'?
Do they think that straight men will want them? Is that the ultimate aim?
Good luck with that one. In fact I think that's where they will lose the war.

pallisers · 10/02/2018 00:18

They hate us and they don't want us to have anything even our own sex and body.

I have reluctantly come to this conclusion.

my daughters and I were talking last night about feminism/sexism etc (they are trans-right-on teenagers - we don't go there). We were talking about how amazing it is that every human being who has ever walked on this earth came out of the body of a woman. I think this is why they hate us tbh.

Butterymuffin · 10/02/2018 00:29

It's the one thing they know they can't do. All the blather about transplanting uteruses aside.

pallisers · 10/02/2018 00:33

transplanting uteruses is a horrible concept. It is like something out of the handmaiden's tale. For a uterus to be given to a man, it has to be taken from a woman.

Howyoualldoworkme · 10/02/2018 00:40

It'll be listed on the organ donor form next. Fuck right off with that!

sillage · 10/02/2018 00:41

Great post, Elderslie, I see lots of truth there.

Beansonapost · 10/02/2018 01:03

I've been wondering what a trans person sees when they look in the mirror...

I've seen a fair few since moving to Scotland. I don't get it... what part of your brain tells you you an attractive woman... because when I look at you I can very clearly see you are a man... and a very ugly and poor impression of a woman. And it's not very nice to look at either!

I've been sharing all this with DH, he has now peaked and I'm happy! He gets it now... and is starting to read more about it... he disagrees wholeheartedly. After having him peak I've come to the conclusion that most men will never know/care/read into what's going on because all of this will never affect them... and it's only until it starts impacting their lives will they truly be concerned.

I am very worried about the future... as I've been reading about Canada and it looks grim... it's like ground zero of a nasty infection that's spreading worldwide.

No1IronGirderRS · 10/02/2018 04:12

Geez Datun, that was an amazing post, I was cheering! You could lead usGrin. And you are right about more people finding out and being appalled. I found out from MN in Dec, as I had no idea. I've been telling people and they are shocked as well. Unfortunately here in Canada things have progressed pretty far, but I do take heart from what you're saying.

However I have to admit though that AngryAttackKittens post then made my blood run cold...

They seem to have decided that the answer to this problem is making women too afraid to tell them the truth and if that doesn't work then make telling the truth illegal.

Italiangreyhound · 10/02/2018 04:24

"that her vagina didn’t make her look less of a man" I a not sure why women feel the need to stay around and take the abuse from anyone so clearly deranged as to utter such shit.

@Taylor22 "But I feel like I can be understood here. Whenever I mention it elsewhere I get told there's no issues anymore and get accused of being a crazy feminist"

Well be proud of the feminist 'label' and challenge the crazy! who says you are crazy? If it is other women then gently show them how loaded this world is against women, it's not hard to do.

If it is men, then of course they will not believe straight off, it is hard to admit you are part of the sex group (male) that oppresses the other sex group. And we have to keep saying not all men', because of course some men are lovely. But calling you crazy is not lovely.

Italiangreyhound · 10/02/2018 04:32

@Ekphrasis "I'm seeing the value of taking out a times subscription and writing to let them know why. And writing to let the Guardian know why I'm leaving them. This is how to let the editors know what we want to be written." Brilliant advice.

"Keep letting tiny bits of info out to friends I know aren't yet aware in order to peak them. Support trans people who aren't like this (utter nutters)."

I will leave twitter in a flash if needed and re reg.