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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

BBC - Who, or what, defines you as a woman?

33 replies

Minerva1234 · 30/01/2018 20:57

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-42864916/who-or-what-defines-you-as-a-woman

OP posts:
Biologicalreality · 30/01/2018 21:08

Thanks for posting. Yet again it doesn't deal with the huge issue of 'what stops someone who 'isn't truly trans' using this to harm women'.

SpartacusReality · 30/01/2018 21:11

I was expecting the film to be very pro trans as the BBC love a good trans video. It initially gave the impression of being balanced by mentioning the violence of some activists - and it did have some words from Linda Bellos. But it didn't have any discussion or comment whatsoever of safety risks to women or of the safeguarding risks to children - just a wishy washy mention of women's spaces with no explanation of the actual impact on women.

HomeTerf · 30/01/2018 21:11

That's the 'Introduction to Transgender Issues'; the bit where we're all nodding along happily with the perfectly decent people, before the dark plot twist is revealed.

Which is pretty fecking annoying, because they're pretending there is no dark plot twist.

SpartacusReality · 30/01/2018 21:13

Yes it gives the impression of being balanced, while missing out a huge part of the picture. Obviously no mention of the many sex offenders who say that they are trans and the current risk to women prisoners.

HomeTerf · 30/01/2018 21:17

And the inclusion of the legal expert saying transpeople are already using the spaces and facilities of their chosen gender (in the tone of someone reassuring a four year old about monsters under the bed) was pretty disingenuous.

BarrackerBarmer · 30/01/2018 21:18

The fundamental conflict:

Why can a man assert he is NOT a man like other men
but
a woman is not allowed to assert she is NOT like that man

Even whilst the whole world observes that her claim has an obvious merit that his lacks?

Either we ALL have the right to say "I am NOT like you" and evidence this, or NONE of us should have it.

I want the right to say "I AM NOT LIKE A TRANSWOMAN" and have society accept that unequivocal truth

OvaHere · 30/01/2018 21:18

It also didn't remotely attempt to answer the premise of the video - Who, or what, defines you as a woman? Hmm

ExFunFeminist · 30/01/2018 21:20

It was not very informative for anyone not familiar with what the actual concerns are. And I don't think Linda Bellos is the best speaker on the subject, and not just because she is now associated with comments taken out of context in which she appeared to be willing to use violence. But she seems to be the go-to person lately who the BBC choose to represent feminists in interviews regarding trans issues.

OvaHere · 30/01/2018 21:25

By only including Linda I think they were attempting to go for the stuffy, old woman who isn't down with the kids angle.

I mean what's wrong with a pink haired teenage boy who says fuck it I'm forcing myself into the female school locker rooms whether anyone likes it or not.

MyOwnShed · 30/01/2018 21:37

Not quite the BBC but this from a piss take news site...

southendnewsnetwork.com/news/man-sues-boss-who-wouldnt-let-him-declare-himself-pregnant-and-take-maternity-leave/

pamish · 30/01/2018 22:21

It looks very BBC3.

Linda said one sentence when speaking in cambridge, when discussing the Hyde Park attack, that if anyone came for her she would hit them back as she does karate - ie legit self defence. This has now turned into Lily being afraid to sit in the same room. Libel.

Please don't perpetuate that myth.

Linda is being used to speak as she's used to doing it and was the third named person on Lily's hitlist.

facelessvongorgeous · 30/01/2018 22:34

I think it's good it's being discussed and the TIMs were so obviously men. Disappointed not more emphasis was put on not needing any surgery or hormone treatment, and how it'll make targeting resources more difficult because of differing needs.

pamish · 30/01/2018 23:20

@faceless, there's already no need for surgery or hormones, to get a GRC. Just a more deliberate and longer drawn out process, with the intention of it being permanent. The opposite of self-ID.

ICanTuckMyBoobsInMyPockets · 30/01/2018 23:41

I was interviewed for this. I stated all the reasons it's a terrible idea, prisons, rape crises centres, medical care etc etc, but they haven't included it.

They were going to, and I have been worrying about the repercussions, but was prepared to stand up and say my piece.

But it obviously doesn't fit their message. So I've been silenced. By the men that made this video.

Justabunchofcunts · 31/01/2018 00:26

That's terrible, ICan. Thank you for standing up and doing it though, that's so important in this climate.

Ereshkigal · 31/01/2018 00:53

But it obviously doesn't fit their message. So I've been silenced. By the men that made this video.

What a bunch of arseholes. Fuck their agenda, this conversation will be held with or without them. Sorry you wasted your time bravely speaking out and worrying about it only for them to drop it Thanks

womanhuman · 31/01/2018 01:06

No-one’s challenged you in a public toilet because women don’t pick arguments with men in public toilets. It doesnt mean they didn’t notice you or were comfortable with you being there. If you were a woman, you’d know this.

Also Ms I feel female, how are you dealing with those period cramps?

Fuck right off.

(OTOH, the bbc wouldn’t even have made this a few months ago.)

Ereshkigal · 31/01/2018 01:11

Also Ms I feel female, how are you dealing with those period cramps?

Don't ever ask them this! You will get a long detailed mansplain about how they cry and eat chocolate and do all the other things they've observed women doing when Aunt Flo comes calling.

womanhuman · 31/01/2018 01:13

But how do they know when to do those things??

mimivanne · 31/01/2018 01:34

www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/

Have lodged a complaint about bias and asked for a response,I can't wait

Ereshkigal · 31/01/2018 01:39

It's their Mysterious Hormonal Cycle. Apparently it happens every month, because they are women, right? It's a scary primeval thing. They are proud to connect to the goddess as cis women do.

OlennasWimple · 31/01/2018 01:55

woman - their time of the month is written in a diary with butterflies on it with pink glittery writing, obv. Cos that's what ladies like

Ereshkigal · 31/01/2018 02:00
Grin
DonkeySkin · 31/01/2018 02:34

I was interviewed for this. I stated all the reasons it's a terrible idea, prisons, rape crises centres, medical care etc etc, but they haven't included it.

That's very interesting, ICan.

I've been getting the impression from the latest round of coverage that the media is putting on a show of pretending to examine the issue (since it's been forced into the public eye by the AWS fundraiser), while actually rigging the 'debate' so that the only acceptable outcome is a stream of public figures affirming that 'trans women are women'.

I did wonder if the refusal to engage with the substantive issues around self-ID was a result of ignorance rather than deliberate bias, and you've now confirmed that it's the latter. Chilling.

SquareDot · 31/01/2018 03:05

Well, why don't they ask US? If you're asking -

Periods - heavy, painful, disruptive

Pregnancy & maternity care

Childbirth & antenatal care

Rape by penis

Pornographic degradation against women

Family planning - contraception & abortion rights

Being looked down on for enjoying social time like fathers do - have a drink or dance at the local pub

Cervical smears

Ovarians cysts

Fibroids

PCOS

Menopausal flushes

Bone fragility in advancing years

Reproductive Cancers

I could go on and on...