Trans extremism & schools

[greenlanes]

I saw this today on TES. How can this crap be stopped?

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-views/transphobes-are-driving-childrens-confusion-about-gender-not-trans

To fill out the alphabet LGBT according to Ditch the Label:
67% trans/transgender,
21% gay,
6% lesbian,
6% bisexual,

What a terrifying document. It pretends to be oh so caring about the rights of girls to safe spaces, but utterly minimises and glosses over real concerns whilst offering up clever arguments that ride roughshod over the needs and feelings of girls.

YY.

Does anyone have the link to the guidance for children with learning difficulties? Because that contradicts her bizarre claim that trans activists say children should be allowed to wear whatever they want.

Did anyone know the answer to @UpstartCrow 's question?

That guest para should have been in bold!

First .... ffs

Bump

Whether it’s the one in 10 young people affected by mental illness, the 10 per cent with learning difficulties or the approximately same proportion who are LGBT+

Is this right? 10% of children have a mental illness, 10% have learning disabilties and 10% (or thereabouts) if children are LGBT? These numbers seem very high to me, Especially the LGBT one, and I expect most identify as trans, or have been identified as trans by their parents or school...

The article is weird, when its on about stuff TERFs say, it says that people used to say 'well what if the child is gay, but then changes their mind'. Well, and? What would happen? Nothing. But it equates this with people being concerned that a trans child will grow out of it and not be trans. The huge huge difference is that a kid who thinks they are trans could be put on blockers, and blockers are a self fulfilling prophecy, so the child will end up on cross sex hormones when old enough (or younger if bought off the internet like mermaids advises) and only then may they decide they are not actually trans. When its too late to go back. Nothing at all like thinking you are gay then changing your mind,

The only way I could complete it satisfactorily was to give answers that went against everything I’ve been trained to do as a designated safeguarding lead with eight years’ experience. I raised my concerns about the flawed training with our PSHE lead and she now refuses to discuss these issues with me.

That is actually terrifying . How on earth are they getting away with this?!

Do you think I should as DDs school if they are doing trans shit? Shes only in reception so I doubt it. But I really really do not want this rbbish to be taught to my children.

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole
here's some new guidance for schools coming out from transgendertrend early next week. Maybe you could share it with the school?
This is the website:
www.transgendertrend.com/schools-resources/

"There are two competing narratives here, both asserted, neither especially well evidenced."

I disagree. We know that a person's gender identity is inbuilt, not learned, because of a giant unplanned experiment that has been carried out over the last several decades, during which doctors reassigned thousands of baby boys to female.

Until quite recently, the prevailing theory was that people are born "gender neutral", and develop male or female behaviour, preferences etc (and a male or female gender identity), from how they're treated by the people around them during early childhood. On the basis of that theory, it became the usual practice to perform sex reassignment surgery on baby boys with damaged or otherwise abnormal genitals (this was done because it's much easier to surgically construct a vagina than to replace a damaged or missing penis).

Then, in the late 1990s, word got out that the "index case" on which the gender neutrality theory was based had gone horribly wrong. Despite having been surgically reassigned to female during infancy and raised as a girl, David Reimer had, as an adult, rejected the female identity and was now living as a man. Scientists went back and checked up on other cases where infant boys had been reassigned to female, and found that the same thing that had happened in the David Reimer, had happened in a very high percentage of these other cases too. In some of the studies it looks like they found a failure rate approaching 100 percent.

Here's some examples of what these studies found:

1. "Discordant Sexual Identity in Some Genetic Males with Cloacal Exstrophy Assigned to Female Sex at Birth"

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1421517/

"Eight of the 14 subjects assigned to female sex declared themselves male during the course of this study, whereas the 2 raised as males remained male. Subjects could be grouped according to their stated sexual identity. Five subjects were living as females; three were living with unclear sexual identity, although two of the three had declared themselves male; and eight were living as males, six of whom had reassigned themselves to male sex. All 16 subjects had moderate-to-marked interests and attitudes that were considered typical of males..."

1. "Psychosexual development in genetic males assigned female: the cloacal exstrophy experience."

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15183379

"Studies of 29 children revealed that despite the absence of the typical postnatal and pubertal androgen surges and the presence of female genitalia, all female-assigned subjects displayed a marked male-typical shift in psychosocial and psychosexual development. Nearly half of them have declared themselves male..."

1. "A 7-year experience of genetic males with severe phallic inadequacy assigned female."

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15538277

"All patients demonstrated marked male typical behaviors and interests. Of the 15 female assigned patients 1 died, 1 refused to declare sexual identity or orientation, 1 converted to male before initial evaluation, 1 was reassigned male by the parents and 5 others declared male sexual identity. Thus, of 17 living patients 10 live as males and 6 as females. Of patients 17 years or older only those living as male lived independently. The 4 oldest patients living as male but only 1 patient living as female would discuss sexual orientation-all 5 declared orientation toward females, and 3 of these 4 males had girlfriends or were married..."

Remember, these are all children who were male at birth, but surgically reassigned to female during infancy and raised as girls. Despite being given a vagina and treated as girls by their families, most of the people put in this situation have adopted a male identity as soon as they were old enough to do so. From these cases and others, it's abundantly clear that there are physical differences between male and female brains that arise before birth, and determine gender identity later in life. Your gender identity, like your sexual orientation, is hardwired, not learned.

Your point in this context isn't hugely clear but I do know people in these cases do not want to be included in the 'trans debate.'

In response to this though, the hardwire was obviously the xy. So by the teens, key endocrine pathways began to start up.

And what is a 'gender identity?' This was about the children's sex.

Interesting - though you can't quite negate the effects of parental expectations and thus upbringing. These families knew that their children were boys.

It doesn't have any baring on the fact that you can be any sex and like dolls, climbing trees, trucks, horses, knitting, welding and fall in love with who ever you wish.

That's what's being discussed here; that young children are being taught you have to define your self by the items and likes around you into a "gender".

Enjoy the things you enjoy doing and educate those who act in a sexist or homophobic way towards you. Telling a child to 'choose their sex' or gender (what ever that is) based on their likes is very sexist.

I'll never understand people who think it supports their argument when biological boys grow up to know they are biological boys.

David Reimer was a biological boy, who had a botched operation on his penis. And everyone knew it. No way he thought he was a girl. Plus he was abused.

HughE

Please stop using intersex people.

They have been asked, repeatedly, to collaborate with trans pressure groups. And have consistently refused. Going as far as to write an open letter on the Internet insisting that they be left out of the argument.

They have a ideological, and ethical conflict over the use of surgery.

Because they have seen the results, for themselves on intersex children.

They do not have the same gung ho approach to genital surgery, that the trans-ideology does.

And in terms of biology, sex is a description of reproductive function.

That's it. Literally.

The word binary refers to the fact that you have to have a human from one sex and a human from the other six, in order to reproduce. There is no way that is fluid. Or not binary.

You can't reproduce without the binary.

That doesn't mean men can't be effeminate and women can't be masculine. Neither does it mean that there can't be some genetic reason for a preference.

Even if you literally cut out the brain of a woman and stuck in the body of a man. That person would still be a man. Because it's a description of their biology/anatomy, not their brain.

And lastly, the reason why it matters.

Females have certain biological functions that have to be accommodated, that males don't have.

Males dominate and commit violence towards women in unacceptable numbers.

Therefore women require privacy when in a vulnerable state of undress.

They require it because of their biology and they require it because men have been proven to be untrustworthy.

It's really not complicated.

Despite you trying to make it so.

I know it was a typo, Datun, but in this context 'you have to have a human from one sex and a human from the other six, in order to reproduce' made me grin!

Jesus, Datun, use paragraphs!

Xulishesthepilot

Haha! There's no way you would have read that if I hadn't chopped up into bite-sized bits!

the other six

Give it 20 years, and that will probably make sense.

'' I disagree. We know that a person's gender identity is inbuilt, not learned, because of a giant unplanned experiment that has been carried out over the last several decades, during which doctors reassigned thousands of baby boys to female. ''

Those studies do not say what you think they say. Consider these statements. Every single person on the planet has a gender identity. Gender dysphoria is present in less than 0.5% of the population. If both of these statements are true then every single one of these people should have reverted back to malehood. The fact that a significant proportion continue living as women suggests the opposite to an inborn sense of gender identity.

Also of note, your selected paragraphs reference ''attitudes and interests typical to males'' Studies which have specifically examined differences between male and female attitudes and interests have found very little difference. Most women will have attitudes and interests that are stereotypically masculine, and vice versa.

"Please stop using intersex people. "

These are not intersex people, they're people who had normal male development, but were either born without a functioning penis. Many of them have a condition called cloacal exstrophy, in which they're born with a big gaping hole in their abdominal wall and no penis. In David Reimer's case, he was born with a normal penis, but it was destroyed in a botched circumcision operation.

Intersex people are of course also often put through unconsented cosmetic genital surgeries during infancy, leaving them with a whole host of problems with surgical complications, and often causing so much nerve damage in their genital region that they're unable to have orgasms or enjoy sex. Doctors doing these procedures often choose the wrong sex for intersex kids too.

I'm very much of the opinion that all cosmetic genital surgery on people below the age of consent should be made illegal - circumcision, FGM, IGM, the lot. It should also be illegal to remove healthy gonadal tissue (as happens a lot to children with androgen insensitivity syndrome for instance).

"Even if you literally cut out the brain of a woman and stuck in the body of a man. That person would still be a man. Because it's a description of their biology/anatomy, not their brain. "

As it happens, I think doctors have inadvertently created large numbers (probably in the millions) of people with male bodies but female brains, through the use of synthetic estrogens and progestins during pregnancy. But you say such people are still male. I'm curious, how much of a male body would you have to swap over before that person becomes female?

The brain controls most of what the body does, including regulating hormone levels (not just steroid hormones, but things like growth hormone and IGF-1, which control skeletal development and are secreted directly from the brain). When I first realised that I have signs of parts of my brain development having occurred as female instead of male, one interesting thing I discovered is that my skeletal proportions are a lot closer to what you normally see in women rather than men.

In men, the legs and the upper body should be approximately equal in length. Women tend to have longer legs and a shorter upper body. It you look at couples, the man and the women are usually about the same height up to the pelvis, and the reason the man is taller is because he has a substantially longer trunk. My trunk is shorter and my legs a lot longer than the 1:1 ratio that is typical for men - in my case the ratio is almost 1.3:1, well within the female range. I also have a female digit ratio (index finger as long or longer than ring finger), ands when I was younger I was very androgynous looking. My bones and muscles are a lot lighter and more gracile than either of my brothers. Up until about the age of 30 I had very little body hair and a female pubic hair pattern (like an upside down triangle and confined to the pubic region). The other male members of my family all had/have a lot more body hair than me. So, physically as well as psychologically, I'm a lot like a mixture of a man and a woman.

HughE

If your theory is correct, how do you account for 50% sex offenders amongst TIM inmates?

How do you account for the TIMs who fetishise womanhood? Which is an explicitly male fetish?

How do you account for the TIMs who, in every corner of social media, threaten to rape and batter women for disagreement?

How do you account for the male pattern behaviour, including male pattern violence and sexual crime?

I've said in another thread, that I can readily believe that there is a cause for gender dysphoria.

But for the purposes of women's interest in this issue, gender dysphoria is irrelevant.

And effeminate men are still men. There are millions of them.

'How much of a male body would you have to swap over before that person become female?'

You can't. You know that. Males aren't female. Sperm =/= egg. X =/= Y.

Why keep flogging a dead horse here?

Oh dear I want to laugh but odnt wish to appre rude.

like an upside down triangle

Is there a right way up for a triangle?????????? IS it a trans triangle??????????????????

BrandNewHouse
"Well I think we know that their sex is."

Another interesting thing I've discovered, is that sex is a lot harder to define than most people think it is. There's a popular misconception that X and Y chromosomes determine your sex, but in actual fact this isn't true. All they do is determine whether you develop ovaries or testicles, everything from that point onward is driven by hormones. More specifically, high levels of androgenic hormones (primarily testosterone and DHT) drive male development. In the absence of those hormones, a foetus develops as female instead. This is easily demonstrated by conditions such as Swyer's syndrome and Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (CAIS), in which genetically male (XY) people develop as female.

In Swyer's, the testicles fail to develop, and so no testicular hormones are produced. In CAIS, they do develop and do actually produce testosterone as normal, however CAIS involves a mutation that renders that person completely unresponsive to testosterone and other androgenic hormones, so all their development takes place as if those hormones weren't there. In both instances, you end up with a person who is genetically male but developmentally female (often so completely so, that the condition isn't even spotted until, as teenagers, they fail to start menstruating).

The fact that the sex you develop as is determined by hormones, means that you can get into a situation where a person's hormone levels were intermediate between male and female when their prenatal development was taking place, or male-typical for some parts of the pregnancy but female-typical for other parts. This is how it's possible to have intersex and transgender people. With intersex, the period of hormone disruption was during the first trimester, which is when genital development takes place. With transgender, it was during the second and/or third trimester, the critical period when most of the differences between male and female brains are thought to arise.