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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Encouraging girls in maths

72 replies

LefkosiaTigers · 30/01/2018 18:36

Where do girls get the message from that they are not supposed to be good at maths?
And importantly, how can it be countered?

My DD is 9 years old, and has recently started saying that she is useless at maths, that it's too difficult for her. Up to now, she was fine, and her teacher tells me she hasn't noticed any particular problems. I have bought some extra books, and tried to explain things to DD, and she does understand, but then she goes back to school and it all starts again.

OP posts:
SimultaneousEquation · 30/01/2018 18:38

Single sex secondary education: more girls do more STEM subjects for longer.

For your 9yo, perhaps some practice fun maths at home like Sumdog or primary maths challenge papers, presented as not because she needs extra help but she’s capable of extra stretching.

Original poster
LefkosiaTigers · 30/01/2018 18:39

Sumdog? Is that a website?

OP posts:
EggsonHeads · 30/01/2018 18:44

I went to a single sex school that was quite good with G&T students. They sent girls who were gifted mathematicians to the university to sit in on lectures. I honestly never noticed the whole girls are bad at maths thing. It may be because it was an all girls school or it may just be because it was a good school.

GreenTulips · 30/01/2018 18:45

My girls have never had this message either - both excel in the subject

What rubbish

grasspigeons · 30/01/2018 18:58

i think there are lots of messages along those lines at a societal level even if others haven't come across it. I think its one of those known 'facts' that boys are good at maths and girls are good at languages so there are lots of subtle things reinforcing the nonsense.

I'd go with giving her concrete things to do such as playing Yahtzee or doing puzzles that manipulate shapes and practical things like doing a recipe but halving it or doing 1.5 times the amount - but don't tell her its about the maths (I do this with my boys)

UpstartCrow · 30/01/2018 19:03

grasspigeons Thats good advice. I struggled with maths at school, and it didnt really start to make sense to me until I made that link. Numbers aren't abstract marks on paper, they mean something.

Childrenofthestones · 30/01/2018 19:06

My daughter has enjoyed it from day one, is doing A level Maths, Physics and Geology and has had two two offers.
I asked her and she says she has never felt anything other than inclusion and encouragement. Mixed school
My youngest daughter is doing GCSEs and hates maths has always struggled with it.
She adores art and history.
Same school.

HairyBallTheorem · 30/01/2018 19:10

I remember picking DS up from an out-of-school maths course run by the local education authority for schools across the city. He was 7. I happened to be there with a couple of other female friends waiting for our kids (all of us with PhDs in maths/physics). We watched in horror as a string of boys (50+) and about half a dozen girls emerged.

I don't know what went wrong. Did schools mostly put boys forward for the course, in the belief that the boys would benefit more? Was it self selecting - the girls were given the chance but didn't want to? (There's evidence to suggest that by age 6 girls have already internalised messages that maths is not for them.) Was it the parents (I think there was a small charge for the course, so not everyone offered it will have taken up the offer)?

Original poster
LefkosiaTigers · 30/01/2018 19:11

grasspigeons thank you, that sounds like a great approach.

There are no single sex schools where I live. I appreciate that some people may not have encountered this attitude, but it is out there.

OP posts:
annandale · 30/01/2018 19:12

There are studies that indicate that even if girls get the most tangential comment about maths performance ('some people say girls do less well at maths but we've never believed that here') they start to rate themselves as less good at maths. (Sorry I don't have a link). Possibly a comment like that coincided with her hitting a topic that was a bit tougher?

Original poster
LefkosiaTigers · 30/01/2018 19:15

That's interesting, anandale, I think you may be onto something there. It's the kind of thing I can imagine DD's teacher saying, intending to be encouraging.

OP posts:
BroccoliOnTheFloor · 30/01/2018 19:17

Read books / watch documentaries about female scientists, or about science in general, and talk about how maths is used in science? The local university might have talks for the public / school students, and some of them will be aimed at girls in particular.

Good luck. The "leaky pipeline" of women getting into STEM jobs is something we discuss a lot at work, and "where and when do girls get this message that maths isn't for them" is a million dollar question.

ChemistryGeek · 30/01/2018 19:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SimultaneousEquation · 30/01/2018 19:21

If you’re good at maths yourself why don’t you try some of the challenges on parallel.org.uk - she is a little young but some of the material should be accessible, and the videos are super, with lots of positive representation of women and ethnic minorities

ChemistryGeek · 30/01/2018 19:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DarkStuff · 30/01/2018 19:25

I think there is some 'anti-maths' thinking at play here too.
I work in education and maths, more than any other subject, is one that children believe is too hard and need extra support with. In my experience more girls than boys feel this way.

I think this comes from society as a whole, not just school. Many adults are happy to admit to being rubbish at maths, and subtly encourage kids to think the same. I have never met anyone who has the same attitude or behaviour around reading.

Outedsochanged · 30/01/2018 19:31

My daughter is 12, to of the class fur maths, mixed sex school. Hasn't ever mentioned any comments about guys and maths. Mind you she is a strong, bolshy kid with an Engineer as a mother. God help them if they did!

Outedsochanged · 30/01/2018 19:32

An Engineer mother who has trouble with autocorrect!!

jeaux90 · 30/01/2018 19:51

I'm in a STEM career and very conscious of maths with my DD8.

I don't like the way they teach maths in school now. Some kids struggle with it,
Mine has.

I let her do squeebles (downloaded onto her iPad) and she does Kumon. Kumon is a real commitment but I have seen her confidence flourish since we started back last April.

Not noticed any boys V girls with it though.

BroccoliOnTheFloor · 30/01/2018 19:56

Have you heard about fixed mindset vs growth mindset? This seems to help some girls / women.

The idea is to discuss how success in maths / STEM has more to do with hard work than with talent. Praising children for effort, pointing out progress, talking about how much work was it to achieve the big scientific advances, not discussing talents.

Twofishfingers · 30/01/2018 19:59

growth mindset is also about learning to overcome obstacles. That's what stopped me from being good at maths. I would give up at the first hurdle and convince myself that I couldn't do it. Maybe I 'blamed' the fact that I am a girl, but it had nothing to do with it. It's really that I stopped myself from believing that I could do it, that I could overcome the challenges. If you search growth mindset on google lots of stuff come up.

As Broccoli said, it's also about praising for effort, that it's ok to make mistakes to start off with as mistakes will teach you how to get it right.

NorthernLightsAlways · 30/01/2018 20:01

I totally agree with darkstuff - pure conjecture and anecdotal evidence but a lot of primary teachers will be women that didn’t feel that confident in maths...my dd’s primary has across 2 year reading groups by ability from the first year, but nowhere near the same amount of attention given to maths - it doesn’t get equally billing.

Also, ask youself, at the end of a long day, are you more likely to read a fun story together or do maths? A lot of the ‘maths is hard’ reinforcement does come from home - reading is easier and more fun for most...

Does your local university do a maths outreach programme? Community links are a big deal, ours does.

CorianderSnell · 30/01/2018 20:06

I have a DD at a single sex school and she has said she’s bad at maths for as long as she’s known it’s a subject. She’s middle of the class but it isn’t to be honest something that clicks for her (yet?).

I try to keep banging on about how maths is more than arithmetic and the latter is just something that comes with practice, then you can move onto more interesting stuff. I try asking ‘everyday’ questions to practice but I get a LOT of resistance to that!

Agree with what Darkstuff said above about it being culturally ‘ok’ for anyone to say they ‘can’t do’ maths in a way we don’t with eg literacy. Heard a great programme about same on R4 but can’t remember name of it.

CorianderSnell · 30/01/2018 20:08

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04gw6rh

Just had a look. Might have been this one ^^

NorthernLightsAlways · 30/01/2018 20:10

I do think adults should think twice because most people mean they can’t do calculus or complicated algebra, not every day maths so it’s an especially dubious thing to say to a young child.

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