Encouraging girls in maths

[LefkosiaTigers]

Where do girls get the message from that they are not supposed to be good at maths?
And importantly, how can it be countered?

My DD is 9 years old, and has recently started saying that she is useless at maths, that it's too difficult for her. Up to now, she was fine, and her teacher tells me she hasn't noticed any particular problems. I have bought some extra books, and tried to explain things to DD, and she does understand, but then she goes back to school and it all starts again.

You could try Mathletics online, really good and if you get her ahead she would be more confident.

I'm never found teachers sexist about Maths but I'm come across lots of Mums who say they can't do maths which I don't think helps girls. I only had a sexist physics teacher at school who said girls shouldn't study it.

Thanks, everyone. Loads of great suggestions and ideas.

I am going to order some books on Ada Lovelace and other women in STEM, and we will use the links. I want to talk to her class teacher again too, and ask about programmes run by the universities, etc.

My daughter got this message too. Part of the problem is that she isn't as naturally good at maths as her older brother, but that's just because they're differnet people rather than because she's a girl.

Since she's started secondary though I'm seeing changes, she loves her female Maths teacher who is fairly young and gives a "girls can do anything boys can do" message and is a positive role model for her. School also has some sort of "girls into engineering" club for girls who want to learn about building bridges, floating boats and all other sorts of stuff.

I work in IT, and I'd heard of Babbage but never heard of Ada Lovelace - as a woman that's worked in IT for 20 years :(

I took my DDs to one of those IOP physics festivals and it was wonderful - they must've dug out and engaged every female physicist in the local area, my DD met a woman who studies the physics of crystals and she now tells everyone she wants to be a scientist, so definitely follow up the university outreach - if they don't run school programmes, they should!

if they don't run school programmes, they should!

I doubt there's a woman working in STEM who hasn't been asked to take part in outreach with primary schools, secondary schools, universities, youth groups...

From time to time, I feel resentful that my male colleagues aren't expected to do all that in the same way.

I doubt there's a woman working in STEM who hasn't been asked to take part in outreach with primary schools, secondary schools, universities, youth groups...

At my work they just ask generally but it's predominantly women who get involved.

Interestingly, a teacher at dd’s primary was saying programmes to get girls into STEM subjects had been massively successful - I’ve not seen any evidence of this though, or of it translating into the workplace, have I missed something?

I want to second noble's idea of whiteboards. I teach Economics and this year I have an entire class of year 12s who aren't doing Maths A level so I have had to rethink how I teach the numeracy elements. They've actually proved to be quite adequately numerate but aren't very confident. Being able to erase their work really helps.

I never got a 'girls can't do Maths' message but I went to a girls' grammar where we were surrounded by female role models. They never talked to us about famous female mathematicians or scientists though. I think it's good that there's more information about them now.

I've certainly heard plenty of people say they 'can't' do Maths since then (the other sad thing people say a lot is 'oh, I'm not creative').

NorthernLights there's a free chapter on Ada Lovelace in this ebook about women in science (it's chapter 8, and clickable):

findingada.com/shop/a-passion-for-science-stories-of-discovery-and-invention/

Have you heard about fixed mindset vs growth mindset? This seems to help some girls / women
I think this is a good point. www.amazon.co.uk/Mindset-Updated-Changing-Fulfil-Potential-ebook/dp/B005RZB65Q/ref=sr_1_2/262-0276812-8455121?keywords=mindset+-+carol+dweck&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1517527429&sr=8-2
Then perhaps Kumon Maths? Step by step at her own level to get confidence?

Could this thread be moved to education? I think it is really important, and the tips from posters who are themselves good at maths are invaluable. It is too late for my DD but if only everyone could realise more about these perspective, the more girls could expand their aptitudes,

It is too late for my DD

No it's not. I know a couple of people who have studied for GCSE maths as adults, and passed (a C for one, B for the other.) It's never too late, if you're prepared to put some effort. (Growth mindset and all.)

Please don't move this out of feminism. The education of girls is a feminist issue and this board should cover a range of feminist topics. Which... is not happening so much at present!

The way I approach this 'I'm bad at maths' attitude is just to be really pragmatic about it- you have to do maths at GCSE, you need quantitative skills to be anything from a scientist to manager working out stock to writing important reports, so best crack on with it. I don't accept fixed ability- if you do badly on a test, you just have to work harder and do more practice, or go and see the maths teacher and ask for extra help.

That way it's less about intrinsic ability and whether boys are better, and more about the fact that maths is hard work, for my girls anyway (as neither are brilliant mathematicians, both are 'good' but not top of their school).

Same for languages, same for any subject which isn't your 'thing'. We do know girls who maths is their thing though, which helps them see it's not a gender thing.

A lot of young women are underconfident in general, not just in maths. I see it a lot with PhD students, female students often need a huge amount of reassurance they aren't a complete fraud and their intellectual ability is good. Even I get intimidated by some of the pontificating males I come across and I don't know why as I have lots of evidence I'm reasonably clever!

The message from the seminar I went to that came out strongly was that boys are not allowed to fail at reading (generalisation) but by allowing girls to fail at maths they are excluded from a whole raft of high paying careers. So yes, it's a feminist issue.

The question also came up about whether it should be discussed with both sexes and the resounding answer was no.. The focus needs to be on girls alone.

Girls aren’t failing at maths, they perform almost as well as boys at GCSE. The issue with girls is they drop maths even when they have the grades to take it further, at every stage where there’s s choice.

Boys on the other hand are failing at reading, they hugely underperform relative to girls at GCSE and are prevented from further study. It’s a huge issue that also needs attention but is different to girls and maths.

For anyone interested in Ada Lovelace I can't recommend enough this highly entertaining book.

interesting noble - do you know if there is any similar effect with girls dropping sciences and technology even when they have the grades?

I went back to uni and got a first class maths degree while my daughter was at primary school. She is now a very confident and able mathematician who finds maths exciting and definitely doesn't see STEM as boys subjects (I'm don't take the credit for her ability but think me studying has increased her interest and stopped her seeing it as a boys subject).
Interestingly there were more women than men on my degree course although I don't know if this is representative of most degree courses and showing that the positive work on girls in stem is having an effect.
I've noticed though that people seem happy to say how they can't do maths sometimes in an almost competitive way which I can't imagine them doing in English for example. I wonder if it wasn't so socially acceptable to be 'rubbish' at maths and maths wasn't seen as such a strange and alien subject which only certain people have the ability to decipher but as a really relevant and exciting subject which is accessible to everyone (including late 40s housewives😀) then it might appeal more to everyone including girls.

For anyone interested in Ada Lovelace I can't recommend enough this highly entertaining book

I second NotDavidTennant's recommendation! Thrilling Adventures is not just hugely entertaining, but it also includes a lot of history on the sly (as well as Lovelace and Babbage fighting crime...) The author and artist, Sydney Padua, while writing it, inadvertently became one of the foremost experts on Lovelace, Babbage and the Difference Engine.

I grew up naturally good at English and just OK at maths. I hated maths. Probably wasn't helped by my grandparents trotting out the whole: "Girls are better at writing and communication, while boys are more suited to maths and construction".

My maths lessons were torturous. I just don't get it and I don't care for it much either. I felt stupid in all my lessons, even when I was given an award for excelling!

Oh, and I was privately tutored in maths too. Still hated it. With a passion. I hated it because it made me feel dumb. I don't believe everyone can be good at something just so long as they keep trying...