Radio 4 29/01/18 at 1pm - Martha Kearney on World at One

[prettyusefulsometimes]

Will be discussing Labour, AWS and trans women. Didn't catch other contributors and can't find a precis.
I'm going to take some prophylactic paracetamol and wrap radio in bubble wrap/put it on a high shelf.

on right now

Go Martha. Freedom of speech.

Go Linda.

"Supposed feminist?!"

Linda Bellos ‘supposed feminist’. FFS.

That was a bit soft on Lily.

Listening too. Lily Madigan: (paraphrased slightly) "Transwomen are women. Labour AWS are for women, not females."

Whatever happened to 'transgender' is about male/female gender? Is LM transsexual then?

Though actually I think more airtime for Lily would be a good thing. Particularly on radio.

They don’t get to the heart of it though. Aargh.

No not quite. Linda was good though.

What's a woman then Lily?

I donated to the Go Fund Me AWS and I'm annoyed that it was described as being activists who'd donated.
I'm not a member of the Labour party nor an activist, just a concerned middle aged woman with daughters.
Madigan sounded a bit unhinged.

I did not think it was very good at all. It did not get to the heart of the issue. Did not even mention what’s self-identified means or that’s those with GRC are able to be included on AWS.

Did not even mention what’s self-identified means or that’s those with GRC are able to be included on AWS Just that they have 'been through a lot and deserve.

I think we need less feminist theorising about concepts of gender and what it means to be a woman and more statements of fact about what is happening. We also need someone to say that a woman is an adult human female of the sex with produces ova and gestates children. Lily Madigan was trying to draw a distinction between “female” and “woman” when there isn’t one. Many people seem to be trying to do this.

And women haven't been through a lot and deserve????

FGM
Endometriosis
Maternity rights issues with employers
Being sexually assaulted
DV
Postpartum recovery
Menopause and it's physical and mental effects
Sexism in employment
Sex pay gap

Finding out child care costs more than you could earn and so your career stagnates while your partner excelled in theirs or buggers off.

Linda did get in the concept of women needing to be represented by someone who has lived experience of being an actual woman. I wanted Linda to mention actual women's issues though, to back up that point, like abortion, contraception, pregnancy, breastfeeding, maternity care, screening, female cancers. Specific issues a listener will instantly know a TIM can't have personal experience of.

I was glad the interviewer got Linda back on track after the violence derail. Very nastily clever of Lily to leave the interview on a note that left Linda naturally wanting to defend herself personally rather than attack on the main issue.

Lily is only representing trans. Trying to price a point. Hasn't got a clue about what it means to be a woman. Knows about trans only.

How does Lily think she will succeed in politics if she's so worried about being upset she won't enter into any kind of moderated public debate with people who disagree with her???

Genuinely baffled. (And furious.)

This really does need to be approached from a water is wet/the emperor is naked POV.

The average member of the public glazes over at 'feminist theory' 'class analysis' they sure as hell understand that women don't have penises though!

It is possible to be of the opinion that violence against transsexuals is abhorrent and still be of the opinion that Madigan is at the very least unhinged.

I thought Linda was useless. Rather than focusing on getting a clear message across to the audience she side-tracked herself into an "did she threaten violence or not?" argument.

It will have left 95% of the audience thinking "WTF was that? Must be one of those leftie navel-gazing things".

I felt sorry for Linda though. There is SO MUCH to say on this that it's hard to know where to start. You could hear the adrenaline in her voice, and the discussion was derailed from the outset by the 'violence' thing, which was a total red herring.

Who knows how much was cut though.

Someone at Radio 4 needs to get a full-length programme on the issues made, pronto. Better still, a two-parter.

All aspects, all points of view.

In Lily's media, Lily does keep emphasising how much they can represent young Labour members and trans members. Any woman over 30 is going to think, "in what way are you representing me?"

I still can't get my head around the CFery of ducking out of a debate in which you know your argument will be PULVERISED and retreating to the moral high ground. What the actual fuck? How was that allowed?