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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

All current rape and sexual assault cases to be reviewed - BBC

207 replies

UpABitLate · 27/01/2018 09:57

here

This raises a massive amount of questions and will be taken by many quarters to mean that most accusations are malicious and that lots of men are in prison for nothing / can be sent to prison on a "woman's word" (the evidence is fitted to make sure of that).

There is a line in the article which says:

"It also begs the question of why the review is to rape and sexual assault cases when many believe the problems of disclosure are systemic, he added."

I think this just shows up that our justice system has deep issues and worst in the area of sexual offences. We seem unable to "get it right" and the entire thing is already balanced on a foundation of laws evolved from property law, a societal tendancy to disbelieve victims, and here by procedural cock-ups.

I also note that new evidence that weakens cases does not mean it didn't happen - but of course this is how it will be taken. Undermining victims massively.

And yes - why only these types of cases when the problem is systemic? Because of an underlying perception, again, that women and girls lie (them being the majority of victims in court).

I think we need an overhaul of how approach sex crime. Trying to tackle it in our adversarial system, with the cultural underpinnings we have, is just not working. These crimes are effectively legal, the difficult in prosecuting is so high. It's only really if there's lots of evidence of other simultaneous crimes (other physical harm from violence, threats with weapons that are found, murder) that our laws are suitable.

Other countries have an inquisitorial approach, maybe we need to look at that.

And the agencies involved in all of this need to sort their shit out. On the one hand we have withheld evidence, on the other hand we have warboys. The system is not working for lots of people.

OP posts:
HairyBallTheorem · 28/01/2018 20:28

Oh gawd, they're tag-teaming from 4Chan or something equally annoying.

PatriarchyPersonified · 28/01/2018 20:29

UpaBitLate

Eh? I wasn't responding to or quoting Princess.

Who is it not reading posts?

UpABitLate · 28/01/2018 20:30

Maybe you could respond to some of ray's points then?

His post was a bit hard to follow for me.

This bit as well:"

"I guess what I’m saying is. Don’t dismiss the men here. They can also be victims. "

  • Yes, they can also be victims of rape and other sex offences. Much more likely than being falsely accused of a sex offence. Peculiarly, the latter situation is deemed much more urgent than the former by some posters.
OP posts:
UpABitLate · 28/01/2018 20:31

Read into that whatever you will.

OP posts:
PatriarchyPersonified · 28/01/2018 20:32

And we do seem to be going down the familiar route of any dissenters being labelled as MRAs, or having it heavily implied that they are rapists or rape fetishists. Nice.

As a previous poster has said, if your not interested in engaging with anyone who doesn't agree with you, why bother having an open forum at all?

Dervel · 28/01/2018 20:34

I’ve made the argument before that the very fact people bang on about grey areas should tell us we have a problem that so many heterosexual encounters are so close to rape as to be indistinguishable from it. I mean if that’s what we’re actually saying then shit we have a long way to go.

Dervel · 28/01/2018 20:35

People have engaged with you to tell you that you are wrong. What is that if not engagement?

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 28/01/2018 20:42

I just had a look at 4chan

Good lord Shock

I blame hairy Hmm

whenIreported · 28/01/2018 20:44

"we do seem to be going down the familiar route of any dissenters being labelled as MRAs, or having it heavily implied that they are rapists or rape fetishists"

You're defining yourself as a dissenter?

So a woman starts a thread on a feminist section of a forum highlighting the extensive problems with how rape offences are investigated and prosecuted in this country and you pop on to...to...what?

What is your dissenting view? That things are just fine as they are and women need to stop talking about it?

What? Why are you here?

PatriarchyPersonified · 28/01/2018 20:45

Dervil

Indeed, and that's been great, but in the last 2 hours we have reached 'peak feminist'.

Argument closedown and implications that any dissenters are secret rapista.

whenIreported · 28/01/2018 20:46

Stop being such a drama queen, PP.

HairyBallTheorem · 28/01/2018 20:47

Dervel: I’ve made the argument before that the very fact people bang on about grey areas should tell us we have a problem that so many heterosexual encounters are so close to rape as to be indistinguishable from it. I mean if that’s what we’re actually saying then shit we have a long way to go.

Absolutely spot on, Dervel. This is a pretty depressing read.

HairyBallTheorem · 28/01/2018 20:48

Oh PP, get a grip and stop being so testerical about it.

QuentinSummers · 28/01/2018 20:50

Oh dear I think we hurt their feelings.
By "arguments closed down" I think you mean "arguments lost".
If you can't win the argument, maybe you should think about what the other side is saying?
And if you are at peak feminist.....why post on a feminist board? Confused

QuentinSummers · 28/01/2018 20:50

Oh PP, get a grip and stop being so testerical about it.
Hahaha much more succinct xpost

PatriarchyPersonified · 28/01/2018 20:51

I'll survive lol.

whenIreported · 28/01/2018 20:51

Interesting that you know three men who have been accused of rape, PP. Where do you meet these friends?

PatriarchyPersonified · 28/01/2018 20:53

Quentin

Argument lost

Re-read the last 190+ posts and review that statement tommorow.

SophoclesTheFox · 28/01/2018 20:53

Re my question on Ray's interest in feminism. It's a feminist board. I'm interested in people's feminism as we discuss topics on this feminist board.

See where I'm going?

It's not that I can't tolerate dissent. In fact, my engagement was to attempt to understand what Ray was on about, because let's face it, it wasn't clear. Happy to have good-faith debate - it's what I'm here for. But in my experience, debating online with people who think men are hard done by when it comes to rape is a bit wearing.

PrincessoftheSea · 28/01/2018 20:55

I didn't actually notice I was on the feminist board. I am removing myself as its too aggressive for me. No I don't feel like I have lost an argument. I feel that I am willing to listen but cannot hear your argument because you are shouting at me calling me rape apologist and accusing me of having no empathy with rape victims. You are also not interested in other peoples views so its pointlessSmile

whenIreported · 28/01/2018 21:00

Princess, Quentin and others are addressing those comments to PatriarchyPersonified (PP) not you.

Dervel · 28/01/2018 21:01

PatriarchyPersonified you stated your position and failed to convince anyone, or indeed in my view failed to even articulate a coherent position, apart from a vague nod towards the legal principle of innocent until proven guilty. Which I don’t belive has been seriously threatened in this thread.

The vast majority of this thread has been a thoughtful albeit frustrated and angry expressions about the status quo, and you have appeared to do little more than nitpick the odd point or post but not really engaged in good faith and certainly haven’t proffered any serious solutions. Which really leads me to wonder what precisely you are here for.

Furthermore if you think it’s peak feminism for feminists (you know the people who advocate and think tank women issues) would be so uninterested to discuss lamentable rape conviction figures I am honestly at a loss on what to tell you.

I’m not going to be to harsh on you as currently I’m weighing up if you are just trolling or are genuinely not that bright and I’d like more information before working out how best to proceed.

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 28/01/2018 21:26

He he 'aggressive'

You're doing femininity wrong again girls Grin

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 28/01/2018 21:27

princess obviously never goes on AIBU

That place is a bear pit!!!

QuentinSummers · 28/01/2018 21:57

I’m weighing up if you are just trolling or are genuinely not that bright
I thought that too!