Stats on why we have women and men sports?

[InaConfusedState]

I came across the story of Fallon Fox shattering Tamikka Brents eye socket a while ago. It’s so patently obvious that a woman is at serious disadvantage fighting a person with a male skeleton, muscle structure and build, I really couldn’t see why Fox wanted to compete against a woman let alone be allowed to do it. It led me to here and reading fascinating (and diverse) views.

After talking to someone about this case, it got me thinking about why we have women’s sports in the first place. I always thought it was because women are structurally different to men and therefore unable to compete against them on a level playing field. But if men are now able up compete against women, is this not true?

I wondered if anyone has links to evidence and stats that show why women have their own sports.

For example, what does going through puberty as a teenager do for male strength, muscles, etc compared to a female?

What advantage does testosterone confer?

What are the typical levels of testosterone in make and female sportspeople?

If a man competes as a woman, does he have to artificially bring his testosterone levels down (and if so is it to the same level as a woman?). Does the fact he’s been through puberty give him any advantage regardless of whatever testosterone level he now has?

What else - hormones, physical build - do men have as an advantage over woman that makes them faster/stronger?

I’m really interested in these physical aspects as it’s what got me (and several friends) questioning what it means for women if a man can become a woman.

An EXPERT MEDICAL PANEL tasked with establishing whether or not a single, individual transwoman's involvement preserves the safety and fairness for women? Sure they won't always get it right, and likely they haven't in the past, doesn't this quieten any of your concerns?

No, given the likes of Laurel Hubbard have got past this apparent expert medical panel. If anyone of a medical background decided that Laurel has no advantage over the female people he competes against, then quite frankly they should lose whatever qualifications they have in the subject.

All I can see is that even if it could be made entirely safe and fair for transwomen to compete in the women's competition that would still be unsatisfactory for many. And that, I suppose, is that.

Likewise when its proven time and time against that having men compete with female people is unsafe and unfair for female people, the fact that they should be competing with their own sex rather than females is unsatisfactory for some.

It can never ever be made entirely safe and fair for transwomen to compete with real women. In any sport where being stronger, faster, whatever is an advantage. Its safe and fair for them to compete in stuff such as horseracing I assume. But anything else, no.

Testosterone levels that were varied to allow intersex competitors to compete as women (which is another issue altogether) are being used to allow men to compete as women.

And this is the most insidious thing about it all tbh. Yet again, exceptions that were brought in to make it fair for some people (and I do think there should be exceptions for actual intersex people wherever possible, IF there is not too much of an advantage), have been hijacked, Kind of like how transsexuals were welcomed in womens spaces, until transactivists hijacked that too.

Mumsnet, broaden your horizons and all that, I feel like I've been beaten up. I'm going to make a cup of tea and interact with my children and cry and think about your question. I'm not avoiding it.

I can see how you have felt a bit piled on on this thread. Thing is though, if you hold an opinion thats in the minority, then people replying stating their POV will feel like a mass attack, when its really simply...being in the minority opinion. Some people who comment on these topic appear to be of the opinion that it should be X opinion, Y opinion, X opinion, Y opinion or else its just posters attacking. Discussion forums do not work in this way, nor should they really.

I am 100% certain that if people understood whats actually happening in sports right now, they would mainly be against it. Most people see why sex segregation is necessary (both in sport and in other areas of life) and I think many who currently support the trans agenda simply think...surely there would be safeguards in place, exceptions to be made and such. When in reality, how can anyone make exceptions when its simply a case of 'I have ladybrain therefor I am female' or whatever nonsense. Ladybrain, if it was a real thing, we cannot see. We don't know who is 'real' and who is 'fake'. And arguably, whether someone is genuinely 'the opposite sex' in their head or not, physical reality says the total opposite of that so should it even matter? We go on what we can see, what we know. And that is, that male and female people are different and in regards to sport, male people have a huge advantage over female ones. So no matter how 'female' a male claims their brain is, its unfortunate but their body is actually male, so they compete with male people. Even if they have taken steps to make their body resemble the sex they want to be, their real sex remains the same and always will. Until we perfect actual magic wands that can change biology and alter nature. I doubt that will happen anytime soon though.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you don't see or hear of many female to male trans people swooping in and beating the boys at sport... which surely must say something about the fairness of it all?!

But Spike surely controlling testosterone levels does all the necessary work... Oh, wait, no it doesn't!

More sports related fuckery from the perspective of a woman who lost out on a top three ranking

www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/7vjt3w/transvestite_entered_local_5k_race_registered_as/

Thanks for the link. It’s such a shame that women are too scared to speak up and have to hide on a forum.

Thanks for that link Ova, makes very depressing reading. I cant understand how people are watching this happen & can think it is fair

And the really awful thing is that if that event was reported in the main stream media, it would be reported with the results and names of three women

Some people might look at the times and think "blimey, she's fast", but unless there is a photograph (which will make a few people sit up) most will just see "woman wins women's race" and have no idea wtf is going on.

It's happening in amateur sport everywhere at the moment, and creeping into professional sport, and everyone is afraid to say anything.

Can’t it be tested in court? Surely someone has to make a stand on common sense grounds...

The poster from that link I believe is in the US so I don't know what policies they have at a local level. It probably varies state by state but in the current climate it seems impossible to challenge any of it because it's viewed as hate crime.

Even if it was possible to challenge it's a brave sportswoman that will risk it because of the vitriol, threats and risk to future sports career (even as amateurs) they face.

Have the comments on that article on the IOC lack of guidelines been pointed out?

"Milton DevonairJohnInMichigan7 months ago

Man, just think if they had 'gender neutral' sports when we were in high school. I'd try out for all the previous girls sports teams and shower in their locker rooms with them. I'd do that to show I'm not judgemental"

Well in the UK there's Lauren Jeska of course; she was only prevented from competing as a woman because she didn't supply UK Athletics with samples. And then of course she tried to murder an official, so they've postponed a decision on her ....

We won't hear if it happens in the UK because there will be a ban on "deadnaming" people.