How can we work towards a constructive debate about all things transgender?

[TruthIsNotHate]

It's absolutely needed, but I just can't see how we can get to a position where it's possible.

Yep. I half suspect CBB of rigging the vote to get Willoughby out of the show because he was peak transing too many viewers.

They always say, listen to trans women. I did, and they showed me exactly who they were.

Also that self-described 'she-male' with a '7 inch surprise' trying to sue for the 'distress' caused through being incarcerated in the male estate for his act of male violence

Narcissistic rage.... no matter how ludicrous, every authority has to bend to their wishes and delusions..... or else

GuardianLions - I don't like the idea of compromising. It undermined every argument when JJ conceded that TIMs with a GRC should be allowed onto AWS.

I felt my support wither a bit at that point.

I think this is a bit unfair. JJ found a specific point of law on which to challenge Labour on a specific situation.

The EA states that AWS are only legal on the grounds of the protected characteristic of sex. The GRA states that TIMs with a GRC have a legal sex of female. Self-IDing TIMs do not share the protected characteristic of sex with women but those with a GRC do (legally - I know it makes no actual sense).

The campaign was started on the premise that Labour are breaking the law. This is a legal battle we could win. There are lawyers willing to take it on. This is strategic litigation, which will always come down to specific points of law and how they are being applied in specific situations.

I agree that AWS should only be open to women and not to TIMs with a GRC but that's not what the law currently says. To challenge that would be a very different kind of campaign because we'd be asking for the law to be changed, not simply for a major political party to abide by the law as it stands.

If you want people to see what Cluster B looks like, expose the narcissistic rage. In public. Where cameras are filming, from multiple angles. India W., Tara Woods, the events at the Anarchist Book Fair -- all were instances of narcissistic rage and revealed something about trans activists, trans ideology, and Cluster B to the public.

This.

I think this is a bit unfair. JJ found a specific point of law on which to challenge Labour on a specific situation.

I felt the language changed - suddenly it seemed a bit 'all women both those born female and those with a GRC'...

The crowdfunder says:

"Women, as a marginalised group, are entitled to AWS under Equality Act 2010 exemptions. Trans people who have had gender reassigment are also, rightly, protected as a group under the act but men who simply self-id as women are not."

I would have preferred the language to be cooler about the GRC - eg- 'as the law currently stands a GRC legally makes a person a woman and also legally entitled to be on AWS'

the 'rightly' bit made my support wither

Maybe she should have just said 'legally' rather than 'rightly' and I might not be so disappointed.

I read it as they are rightly protected as a group, not rightly protected as women.
So to me it draws a distinction between women (protected by sex and eligible for AWS) and transpeople (protected because of gender reassignment but nowt to do with women)

It is hard to say because it is all bundled together and the long and short of it is that TIMs with a GRC can go on AWS.

I'd prefer to not be so chipper about it.

Having said that I am very happy it now has over 20K and 1150 donors!