Labour’s NEC Set To Confirm Trans People Allowed On All-Women Shortlists

[busyboysmum]

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/labours-nec-set-to-confirm-transsexual-rights-to-all-women-shortlists-for-parliament-trans-women_uk_5a66782ae4b0e5630072d118

DrRadFem is a bit of a fucking eejit tbh.

Yes, that statement doesn't say its specifically for Venice so it would probably be as well to hold off on refunds and see if there's a statement issued after today's Labour statement.

I'd be happy for them to use the fund to challenge the harassment and doxing by Madigan et al legally of multiple Labour Party women but not solely to challenge Venice's suspension. I would also donate separately to a fund for that but I think it should be a choice.

Urgh my grammar in that last post! YKWIM.

So do we ask for a refund or not? I'm so loathe to let the momentum (unfortunate word) of the last few days backslide now, but equally I don't want to be associated with the kind of thing I've seen on VA's twitter feed.

(Sorry, posting quickly while doing ten other things - that sounded very demanding!)

I think wait. And maybe contact Jennifer directly with a link to this thread to show concerns.

crustychristmastree

People are getting upset about changing the criteria to get a gender recognition certificate. It's really only prisons, at the moment which demand one.

Although, from a conceptual point of view, being able to legally be a woman on the basis of filling out a form is ridiculous. And one's imagination can only explode at the way this might be exploited.

' Thinking about transitioning' being a protected characteristic is almost self ID by any other name.

But it does at least specify that you have to have thought about it.

And there are exemptions in place. In terms of the equality act.

I could be wrong, but I don't think those exemptions can be invoked for someone who has gender recognition certificate. Which is why self ID to get one is so dangerous.

Click on the Huff post link and scroll down to the picture of Heather Peto and Stevie Wonder on a galloping horse could tell you that's a man in a bloody frock. Why are we being legally forced to believe this utter nonsense?

In terms of the equality act, you are quite right in that it mimics self ID, on the basis of 'even thinking about transitioning is a protected characteristic'.

Sounds to me that self id is already law then. Would be difficult to keep Lily Madigan off a short list.

We lost in 2004.

I agree with Lang.

Let's sit and wait. Because if Labour does endorse self-ID onto AWS then it is going to be a long old haul. Cool heads needed.

We may need separate funds, one specifically to challenge the self-ID with respect to AWS (in which case we can attract women and men from all parties and no party affiliation). We can be very broad with this and sell the fact that this is a test case about men who can just self-ID into women's spaces with absolutely no gatekeeping whatsoever.

There can be other funds to deal with other matters.

Cool heads needed.

Yes. Things are moving quickly. Nobody can really make any certain decisions until after the NEC announcement.

I have reservations about any test case solely associated with Venice. But that's not what the update actually said. And in any case, at the time it was written, JJ believed the Labour Party had backed down on self-ID for AWS (as they knew it would fail on a legal challenge) but was pressing on with self-ID for CLP officers and the like (which even JJ's advice was suggesting was probably legal).

If the LP now presses ahead with unlawful AWS, I can't imagine JJ will be diverting any significant funds.

I'd hope that given this announcement JJ will rethink. If she is going to use the money to defend VA then I will withdraw my donation and re-give to another crowdfund specifically set up to legally challenge the inclusion of self-identifying women on AWS.

In terms of the equality act, you are quite right in that it mimics self ID, on the basis of 'even thinking about transitioning is a protected characteristic'.

"Sounds to me that self id is already law then. Would be difficult to keep Lily Madigan off a short list.

We lost in 2004."

Well yes, except as usual, the devil is in the detail.

Lily Madigan is not a legal woman. The shortlists specify woman.

So, for instance, Madigan could not be discriminated against under the equality law.

That is meant to mean denied a job, housing, etc.

Is it discriminating against a man by not allowing him to say he is a woman, even though he legally isn't one?

If he is transitioning, then you could say yes, but then women are also protected on the basis of their sex.

AND there are exemptions to Madigans discrimination. Whether the objections to allow him access to all women's shortlists are a 'proportional means to a legitimate aim'. That is the wording of the exemption.

The legitimate aim would be creating all women shortlists to actually be reserved for women.

I mean I can't see how that exemption isn't entirely applicable.

Yes, unless people have donated money that they should not have anyway then I suggest that people wait for now before withdrawing. Do let JJ know your views, however.

'Thinking about transitioning' is only protected under this act as much as any of the other protected characteristics, like your ethnicity, marital status, sexuality and all the others.

I also want my donation to go towards the originally specified aim of no self-ID onto AWS.

I've sent an email to the address on the first update. I'm not on twitter.

Lily Madigan is not a legal woman

Lily has stated that Lily has a GRC...

It feels sadly rather apt that the woman known as Rosie the Riveter has just passed away.

We can do it! No we bloody can't. Not as far as Labour are concerned. Women, know thy place

Lily has stated that Lily has a GRC...

True. They have also said they can get pregnant as much as any other woman. They said their brother set up the Twitter account that advocated rape. They said they were asexual. They also said they were a lesbian. And that they were not on the labour against transphobia Facebook page, despite screenshots. Apparently they had been photo shopped. They said they can't afford £24 for UCAS application, and a GRC costs £140.

Lily has stated that Lily has a GRC...

True.

Oh and they also said they are a woman. Also a vulnerable girl, also a competent politician.

Truth seems to with be a very flexible or a very transphobic concept at the moment.