Getting the message across

[Minerva1234]

I've been pondering why the 'transwomen are women' message has proved so persuasive for many people.

I think people tend to respond best to messages of hope and change. 'Votes for women'. 'Legalise gay marriage'. Slogans about positive improvement are more compelling than 'oppose change' or 'keep things how they are'.

Equally, people respond to snappy, emotive slogans a lot more than they respond to paragraphs of well-reasoned argument.

The arguments made by gender critical feminists may be sound, but understanding them can take time and thought. The message is also one of resisting change - albeit with good reason - rather than being 'progressive'.

So is there a way of explaining the gender critical argument that taps into people's desire for positive change?

A simple 'women don't have dicks' seems to work for peaktransing my friends. They waffle on and on about gender identities and transphobia and whatnot. That one sentence that stops them in their tracks and they are unable to argue against (in one instance besides a pathetic 'thats transphobic' with riduclous puppydog eyes'). Unfortunately this then leads to 'transwomen who cut their dicks off are women then' but I prefer that line of thought that the 'female penis' types

Maybe even the eternally simple 'biology matters'

YY Donkey. It really brings home what trans ideology is.

Only men can be transwomen.

Ooh I like this. Transactivists can't argue against this one either given their utter rage that was displayed when women started saying they were transwomen

The problem with the ‘keep women safe’ ones is that it buys into the idea that people have that our problem is that we think trans people are rapists and thugs and that we just haven’t met any.

How about somethig like ‘smash gender keep sex’

‘Individuals not sterotypes’

Or

‘Fuck off out my life you cocking homophobic, misogynistic ignorant cock’

We Have To
SEE SEX
to
SEE SEXISM

--

You know..until I saw this post I didn't click on to this, but this whole 'transwomen are women' thing is very much like the 'I don't see colour' idiots isn't it. Just its..I don't see sex.

Fuck off out my life you cocking homophobic, misogynistic ignorant cock

Definitely my fave, but cannot see it catching on somehow

Whoops got carried away there.

‘Gender identity hurts everyone’

‘It’s called having a personality you sad twat’

I used to love Eddie Izzards ‘they aren’t women’s clothes they’re my clothes’

I mentioned peaktransign friends..it really does not take much once they think just a little into the whole thing instead of repeating the ridiculous mantra. I am fairly 'lucky' in that most people around me are gender critical. Mainly due to my cousin, who is a post op transwoman but about as gender critical as they come. They will argue against anyone using 'transwomen are women' in their presence. An actual transwoman telling them they are talking shit seems to work pretty well The transactivists would fucking hate my cousin as much as they hate Miranda Yardley and any 'sane' transwoman who believes biology matters and that women need their own rights.

I call my cousin she as..and this might be hard for some of you to believe but, I forget sometimes that they are male. Its really an odd situation as she does not pass AT ALL (and she knows this too) but I do often forget that she is male even though I can clearly see it with my own eyes. She does not demand preferred pronouns off anyone though. And is fairly happy with people using she, he, they, anything tbh. So laid back. This is why it was so odd for me when thrown into the online transactivist world..as they are so aggressive and just awful and yes, snowflakey.

Oh, my cousin is 100% against self-ID too. And actually thinks GRCs are useless and should be don e away with fullstop as noone should be able to become 'legally' the other sex when its impossible to change sex.

Unfortunately "women don't have dicks" aggravates people who are 'trans allies'. I saw a conversation on Twitter relating to this statement by JJ. This was given as an example of transphobia. It instantly closes ears to any further discussion (though in the discussion I saw progress was made and no one was called a bigot in the end, but they both remained polite and were willing to listen to each other.)

It's the truth but honestly better to use the proper words - I think dick is too closely associated with abuse. "You're a dick". So penis (and phallus?).

I love this too:

Only men can be transwomen.
Only women can be transmen.
Don't erase trans reality

Don't erase women's reality.

(TY sci-fi!)

If it’s restricted to gender then every time we see

“Transwomen are women”

It’s a simple

“Only men are transwomen”.

"Gender is a social construct."

Is stopping my teens in their tracks.

"Gender sex roles are harmful to women and men"

Makes them pause too

Actually I usually say

Gender sex roles are harmful to girls and boys

For women's sport:

Only one ball on the pitch!

Unfortunately "women don't have dicks" aggravates people who are 'trans allies'.

I honestly don't give a fuck. Pandering to their language is absolutely not a good thing to do. It doesn't make them any more receptive but it sets up unreasonable expectations.

I never use the word transwomen.

"Only men can be transwomen" seems pretty perfect to me as a soundbite answer to "Transwomen are women"
It's a pretty undeniable truth after all.

I know @Ereshkigal but by not taking that tact and infact saying I felt that phrase was vulgar - backed up with the same phrase using the word penis (!) - I found that I did infact manage to get someone in twitter to really consider my points of view/ the points of view of women being labelled transphobic, after claiming to be left and pro trans rights etc. (To be fair, they were a polite person too!) so I was able to heartily point out that transwomen who hadn't had the op had penises and those that had, had done. Mind you they replied that surely no one was saying biology was the same, which is where I was able to explain that well, yes they are actually and it's minimising women's biological experiences and to many women, being a woman is primarily defined by their biology as we know full well we can dress and do the jobs we want.

No-one can tell me what to think however. I just am finding it a better game to be carefully measured in what I say/ type. Mostly.

Taken from the hairandthebod from the women's march thread but how about something like my feminism doesn't intersect with a dick for a slogan??

I've not caught up on the thread since yesterday so apologies if the conversation has moved on!

I like biology not bigotry!

Also, I like to question why women are the only oppressed group it's okay to self-identify into. I had my head bitten off the other day when I said that having an eating disorder meant I genuinely do 'feel fat' even if objectively I'm thin. I was shouted down because saying such a thing is wrong because fat people are marginalised and I'm not treated as a fat person and therefore shouldn't self ID as such. For some reason this logic does not apply to trans women.

It's great that you've had success, Ekphrasis. I can't abide the charade of pretending that I think they're women though and I find not pandering to that falsehood suits me better. I'm pretty good at arguing my case, but I take your point that some people are put off by the bluntness. I think it needs both approaches, to be honest.